Ep 4 - Karen's struggle for acceptance (from herself and others) (part 1)

[00:00:05] Hi everyone and welcome to the Monomyth Diaries, a bi-monthly podcast where ordinary people

[00:00:10] get to share their hero's journey. I'm Mandi, and I'm Karen, and we'll be your hosts. Each

[00:00:16] episode will feature a hero who will share their journey of growth. We'll hear stories

[00:00:21] about forgiveness, survival, determination, and much more. We're glad you're joining

[00:00:26] us because we all have a Monomyth to share and someone out there needs to hear it.

[00:00:34] Welcome back to the Monomyth Diaries. Today's featured hero is my co-host, Karen, and she's

[00:00:40] going to be talking about embracing challenges with love. Before we begin, one of our mantras here at

[00:00:45] the Monomyth Diaries is take what you like and leave the rest so I can only share from my experience.

[00:00:51] All right, thanks for that. So today she's going to talk about her ordinary life

[00:00:56] and talk about the threshold of the catalyst that gets her into her transformative journey.

[00:01:02] So Karen, can you tell us a little bit about your childhood and what everyday life was like

[00:01:08] for you in Canada? All right. So both my parents are from Hong Kong. They actually met at the

[00:01:15] University of Toronto as students. Now their own parents, my grandparents are from China. So

[00:01:22] there's a lot of moving around that has happened throughout the generations. So I was born in

[00:01:30] Toronto, Ontario, which is in Canada, and I was actually the first person on my dad's side of

[00:01:37] the family to be born outside of Asia. Oh wow. So my Chinese name is also in Cantonese,

[00:01:44] which actually literally translates to blessings in Canada. And so that's the first time I've ever

[00:01:54] heard you speak Cantonese, right? I remember the first time that we were talking, you told me

[00:01:59] that you spoke English, French and Cantonese and my mind was just blown. Well actually my

[00:02:06] first language was Cantonese. So when I began school in kindergarten, I spoke only Cantonese

[00:02:16] and I had to kind of learn English. I mean you'd learn some English from watching TV, like Sesame

[00:02:20] Street and the Muppet Show and things like that, but I remembered in the elementary school because

[00:02:26] this was during a time here before ESL was a thing. So they put me in what was literally

[00:02:31] what was called slow class. Oh my gosh. That was the only girl that was in slow class and I was also

[00:02:39] the only person of color in the entire school until my brother was old enough to join me at

[00:02:43] this email elementary school. Okay, I did not realize so your parents didn't speak English

[00:02:48] to you at home? They did but it was like mostly Cantonese at the time and then when my

[00:02:54] younger brother was born by then I was you know older and they started speaking more

[00:03:00] English to practice because you know especially for my dad he was Navi in the workplace. So

[00:03:07] things really got really interesting with my mom's mother that moved in with us so when she

[00:03:13] kind of spoke very very little English so what we would kind of like start to develop like two

[00:03:19] faces like your home face, your Chinese, you speak Chinese in the home especially because

[00:03:25] my grandmother didn't really speak English but then when you were out with your friends

[00:03:27] or at school you would speak English and assimilate. I wanted to share a little bit about my childhood

[00:03:35] so I was mocked at school for you know things I would bring to lunch and then because I used

[00:03:43] packing rice and things like that and kids in my school would be like eww eating rice and then

[00:03:48] this is before eating rice was trendy or kind of normalized everybody else had sandwiches and

[00:03:54] if I was ever invited to somebody else's house it was meat and potatoes and then when they were

[00:03:58] feeling fancy it was spaghetti. Okay so you're growing up so you're in a you said you're in a

[00:04:03] suburb of Toronto? Correct yes I grew up in the suburb of Burlington, Ontario which is a suburb

[00:04:10] of Toronto. Okay so kind of a small town? At the time a smaller suburb today it's like

[00:04:17] it's a pretty significant suburb is I don't even know what the population is but it's

[00:04:22] significant it's pretty high up there I don't know I'm ballparking could be like a million people

[00:04:27] but at the time it was like maybe 100,000 people oh so pretty small so yeah okay for comparison we

[00:04:35] live in Houston so yeah our even our suburbs are you know easily 500,000 people so that's

[00:04:42] that's a pretty small town yes okay and you mentioned that you were the only family

[00:04:48] that wasn't Caucasian. Correct that was the only person of color as an entire school until my younger

[00:04:56] brother was old enough to start attending the same elementary school as we. Okay okay all right I just

[00:05:01] wanted to make sure that I had that clear yeah okay okay so you're growing up in this small town

[00:05:09] in Canada? Yes and so you started to talk a little bit about this what were some of the

[00:05:15] challenges that you faced in your childhood due to your cultural background being so different

[00:05:20] than everybody else's? Totally it was a it was a very interesting time you know and I hope what

[00:05:27] I'm going to share is testimony to how things have grown in progressance but at that time when

[00:05:33] I was a kid like I would get teased for what I would bring to school for lunch my lunchbox

[00:05:37] um like things like I used to my mom used to pack me rice in my thermos like a full like meal

[00:05:45] and and the kids would be like eat moving eating rice when he's cat and why didn't

[00:05:50] it a sandwich why don't you eat sandwiches like as everybody else had sandwiches and they would

[00:05:55] have like you know little snacks and little like twinkies or whatever and of course my mom was

[00:06:01] like no I'm not buying you twinkies um little things like even the clothes I wore you know back in

[00:06:08] the day I was wearing like Hello Kitty and Doraemon or Ding Dong however we want to name that character

[00:06:14] before it was fashionable and other kids would be like what's that what's that on your shirt

[00:06:19] you know and what does that say it's so weird and and just being felt like you don't fit in

[00:06:27] you're different um and I'm sad to say there were some kids that used to mock the shape of my eyes

[00:06:33] and they always say things and make sounds like they're trying to speak what they thought was Chinese

[00:06:39] and you know those those those kind of things uh I would say probably the most traumatic incident

[00:06:45] though that did happen to my family uh was when somebody actually threw a rock through our basement

[00:06:51] glass window with a note tied on it and a lot of racial slurs telling us to leave

[00:06:56] and uh that was I just remember seeing how upset like my parents and my grandmother were

[00:07:01] to see that happen oh wow that's so hurtful and so awful I'm so sorry that happened to you

[00:07:10] oh um that's how do you think that those hurtful comments and I guess stereotypes right

[00:07:16] I mean that's what we're talking about here um affected your self-perception because I'm sure

[00:07:22] you know you you know you just want to fit in right like you want to feel a belonging

[00:07:28] but I'm sure you didn't feel that way especially if kids are being or teasing you

[00:07:32] and then they'll be putting the special class on top of that I did not know that

[00:07:37] I don't mean to laugh about it it's just like compounds the problem I'm sure

[00:07:42] so how do you think it affected your self-perception like your view of yourself and your culture

[00:07:47] yes uh definitely there are a lot of things like well I need you start to realize you know

[00:07:52] like that saying sticks and stales ready to break my bones but the word to never hurt me

[00:07:55] I say that's actually not true words can have a huge impact um I was told that was ugly I was

[00:08:01] mucked for being in slow class which I'm just gonna say though it you know weird benefit

[00:08:06] like I got to hang out with the cool kids like the troublemakers it was like the only

[00:08:10] time we would hang out was being in slow class together and I'd like to think that that cultivated

[00:08:16] me since they're humor because they were the funniest kids in class just to put a positive

[00:08:23] spin on it all but I definitely would say there was a lot of self-hating that went on like just

[00:08:28] hating this color my skin the shape of my eyes how my features were and I know I went

[00:08:36] through a period of wishing I was born white and going why why did I have to be born Chinese why

[00:08:42] did I have to be born into this culture why do I have to look like the way I do so that really did

[00:08:46] happen and then I and then things got so bad to a point where I started refusing to go to

[00:08:53] Chinese school so on Saturdays my needs to go to Chinese school to try to learn more about

[00:08:58] my culture to try to learn to read and write in Chinese and I'm sorry to say that like at

[00:09:05] some point I was so self-hating I didn't want to go anymore I felt like I felt like

[00:09:11] that thoughts like this useless one we're going to use this why would I need to know Chinese

[00:09:17] and to this day I'm still illiterate in being able to read and write in Chinese and and then

[00:09:25] the end result was just becoming very ignorant of not just my cultural heritage but my family

[00:09:33] history as well wow that's deep how old do you think and one of the things that we I know we've

[00:09:44] talked about in great in great length is you know your your idea of self-reflection and so forth how

[00:09:50] old do you think you were when you started to realize you know that some of these negative

[00:09:55] experiences you know these hateful comments were really shaping your self-image because

[00:10:01] you said you started thinking like you don't want to be Chinese and that you wish you were white

[00:10:05] how do you think you were when that started to happen so I would say things started to turn around

[00:10:11] when near the end of high school and going into college you know I was really fortunate to have

[00:10:20] maintained made and maintained some friends like me who are Chinese descent but didn't have

[00:10:27] that same I don't know what their story was but they had a sense of pride and confidence in

[00:10:34] being Chinese they introduced me to like Chinese movies and pop culture and I was like what they

[00:10:42] have their own movie stars they have their own pop music like what is this they have their own

[00:10:46] TV shows like I just remembered being introduced to that and then when I especially when I was in

[00:10:52] college I also built a bigger circle of friends of students who came from Hong Kong who came to the

[00:10:59] University of Toronto I followed my parents and started going to same school they did but in a

[00:11:06] meeting and encountering groups of that had literally just started attending that school for

[00:11:15] whatever program they were but they were directly from Hong Kong and seeing like how cool and

[00:11:19] confident they were in their own skin and they were showing me the cool places to eat that I was like

[00:11:27] wait what like Chinese food is actually really cool it's diverse so there's so much variety and

[00:11:34] I'm gonna be honest they hope and late at night we would go out and eat and I was just seeing

[00:11:40] how like you know they would play in their cars you know like for a lot of these students

[00:11:46] they were international international students so and they they had money to be honest um they would

[00:11:50] have their own car and they would play whatever pop music they were listening to from home and I was

[00:11:55] like hey this this is like not what I expected I I kind of felt like growing up the way I was

[00:12:03] treated at school conditioned me to think like all Chinese people are backwards they're

[00:12:09] stupid they're dumb that they lived and they had no modern technology and when I met these

[00:12:17] students it was like they were anything but in fact like they were brilliant they were smart

[00:12:23] they were fun um they had their own sense of style and and but it was that confidence that

[00:12:31] really opened my eyes so this was high school colleges college yeah okay yeah like 18s it took

[00:12:39] that long yeah um so sorry that that happened but I'm so glad that you are now having an opportunity

[00:12:46] to see your culture along with some other cultures right yeah so say would you say

[00:12:52] that this is gonna change or start to shape your sense of belonging and your yourself acceptance

[00:12:59] oh fully so around this time I have the opportunity to um visit Hong Kong with my my maternal grandmother

[00:13:07] and my parents and I just remember like back to what I was saying about like kind of believed um

[00:13:13] you know Hong Kong and parts of China was gonna be like this and it was like it was anything but

[00:13:17] when I got there I was like oh my goodness this place is like so advanced their their tech is

[00:13:22] amazing they had like mp3 players like when we were still carrying around CDs so you walk

[00:13:31] like they were like you know things like I remember back in the day we cell phones had just come out

[00:13:36] and yet to buy like spend a fortune for like only 200 minutes a month and meanwhile they were already at

[00:13:41] like $15 a month for a flat rate like kind of equivalent and I was like I got right out doing

[00:13:46] this in North America you know like things like that that really made me go like huh like to reevaluate

[00:13:54] like everything I believed and to see like this is not the case at all um and then later on in life

[00:14:01] I'm really glad to say that like um you know when I was in college I met another student um through

[00:14:08] my church who's of Indian descent uh so he moved to Canada uh he was he was born in Kuwait

[00:14:14] but his family's from India and uh he moved to Canada when he was like a young teenager and we met

[00:14:22] us college students uh and we were able to connect and commiserate like that whole like you eat that

[00:14:30] whole dichotomy of having more than one identity like yes you're Canadian and yes you have western

[00:14:37] values and western perspective but you can also appreciate your roots and what your family

[00:14:43] has raised you in and to see like both can be true at once and both can be in one body or more than one

[00:14:52] um and in so many cases and especially these days we're seeing so much diversity happy we're seeing

[00:14:58] it in so many families uh like there's multi races and you know sometimes different

[00:15:05] different traditions get learned in past and we can have a little bit of like the best of all

[00:15:11] worlds in in one and to be able to learn from one another and and then that would set me up later on

[00:15:18] you know my husband we we would eventually get married and then my husband is going to get a job

[00:15:24] that's gonna move us around so I remember our first big move was leaving Toronto in

[00:15:30] there which I've only ever lived in uh we moved it to Calgary, Alberta and even though it's also

[00:15:36] in Canada I remember going is this the same country because it feels so different and having to like

[00:15:44] get used to a new geography and and even a little bit like yes they speak English but the lingo is

[00:15:51] a little different and you know having to kind of learn their culture if you will and I'll

[00:15:57] say just for the record Calgary is like Houston North so very different from what I experienced

[00:16:04] in Toronto and then eventually from there we moved to Chicago uh so that transitioned from Canada to

[00:16:11] the U.S. and then moving now here to Texas to the Houston area I feel like having been trained if

[00:16:22] you will of battling dual cultures or multiple cultures and cultural identities helped me to

[00:16:27] you know be able to meet and reach out to people from different places to relate to other people

[00:16:33] who just moved into a city because I'm like hey I'm in your shoes and I know uh people who came

[00:16:38] from a different country or completely different language and to be able to have empathy to go like

[00:16:43] oh I get the struggle right that's what I was thinking like so you know I'm circling back around

[00:16:48] to um you know high school college age for you it sounds like that is like your big kind of

[00:16:56] catalyst maybe that's that's gonna start to shape this transition for you where and maybe I

[00:17:02] tell me if I'm wrong I'm I'm thinking just you know thinking that when you were younger

[00:17:08] you have you you have this duality right yeah you have the sense of duality yeah um and you're

[00:17:14] not embracing it yes you know um you're fighting it really it's the way that I'm thinking you're

[00:17:20] looking at it and then you have this kind of transformative journey that's gonna happen

[00:17:25] after high school kind of college age am I right yes like totally you totally nailed that thank you

[00:17:33] it was like I think I was fighting it because as a child I was told I needed to be a one way

[00:17:39] in ironically I was fighting my home like to try to fit in at school because at that time that was

[00:17:45] what was more important and then I wasn't telling matured and grew up um and you know was in

[00:17:51] college that uh that really was a launch point like it was it was revolutionary and changing

[00:17:59] the way I saw the world and to see like hey being different isn't a bad thing there's there's like

[00:18:06] benefits and advantages that someone with an outside view can bring and and it really cemented me

[00:18:13] the idea of like yeah I couldn't there's always something I could learn from any person

[00:18:19] irrespective of wherever in the world they're from yeah that's amazing um I don't know we're

[00:18:29] those kinds of experiences um what do you so let's talk about Hong Kong again like I love that

[00:18:35] you know you you're in Canada right where it sounds like most people are not like you

[00:18:41] to all of a sudden you're visiting Hong Kong yes what do you think the most significant

[00:18:46] thing you learned the most significant lesson that you learned on that trip to Hong Kong

[00:18:51] yes I think you've been there a couple times so let's talk about the first one okay the first

[00:18:55] one um like the very first time honestly the first time I went I was like 526 so I did not appreciate

[00:19:02] that trip uh I was too young um but it was also kind of like uh look at me it wasn't a vacation

[00:19:10] it was like just you know it was more about like seeing this is different and I'm uncomfortable

[00:19:16] um but when I was older um I remembered like just being really blown away by just

[00:19:27] like being able to see the differences between like hey they do things some things that they

[00:19:33] do better than we do in North America you know like it's kind of like pros and cons like there's

[00:19:37] there's benefits to one way of doing things and there's benefits of doing another way of things

[00:19:42] and just feeling that sense of like wow like this is this is where I grew up and I'll say it was

[00:19:49] like a good 15 years between like almost 15 years between the first time actually no not 15 but close

[00:19:56] between the time I went the first time to the second time so a lot had also changed in that

[00:20:01] period of time you know good yeah um but I think the biggest takeaway was there was a lot more

[00:20:08] in common than there were differences and I think the big one was hey everyone's just trying to survive

[00:20:14] and thrive yeah yeah it may look different in different ways but ultimately like the bottom basic

[00:20:21] need it's the same everyone's trying to make money at whatever they're doing everyone's trying to

[00:20:29] have a balance work-life balance and have a healthy family okay it sounds like on that trip that you

[00:20:36] you really um you started to embrace your cultural identity yeah of having multiple

[00:20:45] races really yeah yeah that's actually a really good way of putting it uh like I think

[00:20:51] then I was able to kind of take that perspective of like you know how our mantra is take what

[00:20:56] you like and leave the rest it was like there's things on both sides of my cultural identities

[00:21:03] that I can like and take and appreciate and different ways of learning oh this way would

[00:21:10] be more efficient than this way just because it's always been done one way doesn't always mean it

[00:21:15] was better yeah and to be able to formulate um a perceptive perception of like okay it doesn't

[00:21:22] matter how it's like okay what actually needs to get done and let's figure out the best solution

[00:21:28] to do it okay and and really dropping behind biases or tradition but to see like what's the

[00:21:37] need of the hour here okay well I think that it's amazing that you you know aren't angry about all

[00:21:46] of those hurtful negative experiences you had uh while you're you know growing up that you're

[00:21:52] not angry about those social injustices I you know I'm super proud of you I think that's

[00:21:57] amazing and such a nice thing to you know give back to the world you know to share those experiences

[00:22:03] that you know you don't have to be angry about it because you're you you learn from them they

[00:22:07] you know they shape who you are so good for you um and so in thinking about that I'm sure

[00:22:13] there's lots of people who struggle especially in our country right like I know we've got you

[00:22:19] know people coming in all the time what wisdom would you share to people who are struggling

[00:22:24] with you know cultural identity issues or similar challenges right well I definitely was a what helped

[00:22:33] me come to peace to it uh is that number one you're not alone everyone is going through that and I think

[00:22:40] number two is just go with like I you know I think back to what we experienced when I was a kid

[00:22:47] a lot of it was fear they're they were probably more afraid of me than I was at them

[00:22:52] and as a child or in that time I wouldn't have said that but I feel looking back I feel like

[00:22:57] that's what was really going on especially also me moving into another country and meeting people

[00:23:03] from a very different background um and I really had to dig deep and build on that muscle of like

[00:23:12] okay who is this person like let's not let's not generalize things let me get to know this

[00:23:18] person that's in front of me let me know what they like what are they like you know and then

[00:23:24] what can I learn from this person what's one thing I what's one piece of new knowledge I could take

[00:23:30] away from this person and maybe they might take away a piece of knowledge from me the end of the

[00:23:35] day like I've just really had to come up with it's a two-way street uh you know if I

[00:23:41] I had to be able to make peace with the past and you know because I don't know who there's people

[00:23:48] that acted out and and to really uh come to a place that and I think a lot of this is also um

[00:23:55] I didn't talk about this but I also started around uh just before before entering college

[00:24:01] I started attending a church that was very multicultural and it was a very amazing space

[00:24:10] because it was like so eye-opening that like one group people who spoke different languages

[00:24:18] different skin tones different foods they would eat and you know different accents you name it

[00:24:24] somewhere you know white canadian some are not like in all in fellowship together and being

[00:24:30] united and treating one another like family that's when I started to go like wow like

[00:24:37] this is what was lacking in my life to see a place where everybody's differences and

[00:24:44] and similarities were celebrated at the same time and I learned from that group that I need to model

[00:24:51] this to every person I meet and and to extend that kind of grace and compassion and try to meet

[00:24:58] them at their level and that we walk with one another what I would say to someone who's also

[00:25:05] moving in and kind of feeling whether it's hostilities or whatever is to you know a saying that I'm

[00:25:12] taking from you walk with grace and dignity uh and to show compassion and let your actions speak

[00:25:19] louder than your words because the end of the day we all need the same things we need to feel a

[00:25:24] sense of belonging we need to set feel um a sense of validation and and I learned to

[00:25:31] validate others first and to see like how that comes back in multiple folds

[00:25:38] where so many of them will validate me because I showed them that first step

[00:25:43] and and so okay so you're do you start going to church to a particular church when you were in

[00:25:48] high school yes okay is that gonna come up again later in your journey yeah I think it will

[00:25:54] I didn't think to mention that no I think that's huge yeah that's that's gonna be a huge component

[00:25:59] I think of your story right because you still attend that church right yes I do okay I'm looking

[00:26:04] forward to talking more about that anything else that you wanted to share um you know what I just

[00:26:11] really went after like you know just like learning like why would someone do that to somebody else

[00:26:19] and trying to like I think having lived with that duality that multiple like um

[00:26:26] um having different schools of thought being taught to me like uh my maternal grandmother was

[00:26:33] Buddhist um but my father's side of the family were Christian so I had two different faiths

[00:26:38] being taught to me it taught me to really like not jump to conclusions to kind of sit and ask

[00:26:45] more questions and and to do research so to speak whether it's learning whether it's talking

[00:26:52] to other people whether it's reading out the library or learning from books but that not

[00:26:58] everybody is going to see things a certain way they're the same way but to be able to embrace

[00:27:03] and appreciate well you know what's that they see what's that what are they bringing to the

[00:27:08] conversation and to go you know everybody has value uh every single person have value even

[00:27:15] when they're acting badly there's there's still something in that person that brings of value

[00:27:22] and and how we could find a place of being in harmony with one another. I'm loving one another

[00:27:28] yeah I think that's a huge part of it. Eight ones yes you're so loving you're so loving

[00:27:33] all right well Karen I want to thank you so much for sharing um I'm still looking forward

[00:27:38] to hearing more about your journey in our next episode and I think that um we want to make sure

[00:27:44] that we acknowledge somebody else so we're gonna let you have a shout out today. Yes so we always every

[00:27:50] episode we always want to thank someone that's truly without them this podcast wouldn't exist

[00:27:55] so today we want to thank our good friend Angie her sons Nick and Bill for all their wonderful

[00:28:02] and informative insights to the tech and gear world so thank you Nick and Bill. Yeah they've

[00:28:09] taken a lot of time to help us out yeah it's a super super big acknowledgement to them we wanted

[00:28:15] to thank everybody for joining us today and to make sure that you stay tuned for the next episode

[00:28:21] of Karen's journey um of learning to embrace all of these challenges with love so see you next

[00:28:29] time. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for joining us today if you enjoyed this

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[00:28:46] feel free to email us at monomythdiaries at gmail.com with your monomyth and keep the

[00:28:52] conversations going. Until next time heroes let's journey together through stories