Ep 6 - Karen Believes Love is the Way (part 3)

[00:00:05] Hi everyone, and welcome to the Monomyth Diaries, a bi-monthly podcast where ordinary people get to share their hero's journey.

[00:00:12] I'm Mandi.

[00:00:13] And I'm Karen, and we'll be your hosts. Each episode will feature a hero who will share their journey of growth.

[00:00:20] We'll hear stories about forgiveness, survival, determination, and much more.

[00:00:25] We're glad you're joining us because we all have a monomyth to share and someone out there needs to hear it.

[00:00:32] In episode two of Karen's Monomyth, she explored the transformative journey that began after she crossed the threshold of acceptance during her high school and college years.

[00:00:42] She shared how discovering an inclusive church played a crucial role in her journey where she encountered people from all walks of life

[00:00:49] and realized that everyone in their own way was seeking a sense of belonging.

[00:00:53] This experience was pivotal in reshaping Karen's perspective on identity and community.

[00:00:59] A significant part of Karen's transformative journey involved deepening her understanding of God's love.

[00:01:05] She came to realize that this divine love wasn't just for her, but was something she was called to show to everyone she encountered.

[00:01:13] Her Christian faith became the cornerstone of this realization, giving a greater sense of purpose and connection.

[00:01:19] The episode also highlighted her travels to Hong Kong, the birthplace of her parents, where she met other Chinese people and began to fully embrace her cultural heritage.

[00:01:27] It was in Hong Kong that Karen realized she didn't have to choose between her Chinese and Canadian identities, but could instead embrace the duality that had once caused her so much inner conflict.

[00:01:37] By the end of the episode, Karen had begun to reconcile her past struggles with a newfound appreciation for her unique cultural background and a commitment to living out God's love in her interactions with others.

[00:01:49] As we move into episode three, we'll explore the boons of her journey and the experiences that shaped her life, strengthened her faith and impacted her community.

[00:02:01] Welcome back to the Monomist Diaries, where it's a take what you like and leave the rest podcast.

[00:02:06] I feel like it's been a few lifetimes since we last connected. So what's going on in your world, Mandy?

[00:02:11] I know it has been a while, at least what, like two, three weeks since we've done any recording.

[00:02:15] I've had some pretty big life changing, monumental changing going on.

[00:02:22] You know, I know we talked about in the last episodes that our son was going off to college.

[00:02:27] That's happened. So that's been keeping us super busy.

[00:02:31] But we're back and I'm adjusting. It's been hard. I'm not gonna lie.

[00:02:34] It's been a rough couple of weeks, but you know, I'll adapt, you know, building those muscles and, you know, adapting to the changes.

[00:02:41] It's just been, it's been very, very difficult. I know we talked about one of the last episodes about the boons too.

[00:02:47] My husband is so sweet. Today, he actually sent me a podcast that Mel Robbins did and it's all about becoming an empty nester.

[00:02:55] That's, that was super helpful.

[00:02:56] Speaking of the boons, that's what we're going to talk about in this episode.

[00:02:59] I'm so excited.

[00:03:00] I love talking about all the great things that come out of the hard work that we do.

[00:03:04] We're gonna talk about some of your boons today.

[00:03:07] Yay!

[00:03:08] Yeah, and you had an anniversary just recently.

[00:03:12] 22 years of marriage.

[00:03:13] I know!

[00:03:14] Thank you!

[00:03:15] Yeah!

[00:03:16] So that leads us into one of our first questions.

[00:03:19] Let's talk about Venus.

[00:03:21] Let's talk about Venus. Can we do that?

[00:03:23] Yes, my husband Venus.

[00:03:25] Yeah.

[00:03:26] He's so thrilled.

[00:03:27] Okay, so how I met Venus, we actually met through our church fellowship.

[00:03:32] Not gonna lie, his name was the first thing that caught my attention.

[00:03:35] I'll be honest, I was expecting a woman.

[00:03:37] Then I remember my first thought was like, oh, I know what she looks like.

[00:03:43] Yeah, you thought he was gonna be a girl.

[00:03:45] I assumed, and you should never assume.

[00:03:50] Well, it's not a very common name, Venus.

[00:03:53] No.

[00:03:53] And so we actually met at a church event, and he was standing with a friend of mine, another guy, and I went to say hello.

[00:04:02] And, you know, as through my journey of, you know, having experienced, you know, racism and being marginalized and discriminated against, and then me forming the conviction of trying to have the attitude of like, I'm gonna connect first.

[00:04:18] I'm always gonna be welcoming.

[00:04:20] You know, I turned to him, and I was like, hi, my name's Karen.

[00:04:25] I'm from the, like, my church at the time was in four geographic regions.

[00:04:29] So I was part of the west side, and he was downtown.

[00:04:33] So that's why we didn't really cross paths until this moment.

[00:04:36] That's why it took a year.

[00:04:37] Yeah.

[00:04:38] Oh!

[00:04:38] Like maybe we just miss each other, or maybe we'd be at this, like, once in a while our church would meet, like, as a whole.

[00:04:44] And, I mean, there's a lot of people.

[00:04:46] So I would, I'd miss him.

[00:04:47] And I'll be honest, I was expecting a woman.

[00:04:50] And so I was like, hi, my name's Karen.

[00:04:51] And he was like, oh, I'm Venus.

[00:04:53] And then this is the person I've been wondering for a whole year.

[00:04:57] What they look like.

[00:04:58] And he's a guy with a goatee.

[00:05:01] Like he's not, you know, that was, it was nothing what I expected.

[00:05:05] It was like first words out of my mouth.

[00:05:07] It was like, you're Venus?

[00:05:10] But you're a guy!

[00:05:11] Like, it was total inside voice speaking out loud.

[00:05:14] And I remembered in that moment, I went, oh!

[00:05:16] Like I covered my mouth.

[00:05:18] I was familiar and I ran out.

[00:05:19] And then I avoided him for another, I don't know, so many months.

[00:05:22] Before I kind of like, I saw him at another then.

[00:05:25] And I was like, okay, time to go eat humble pie.

[00:05:27] Because I'm only bad.

[00:05:28] So how old were you when this was happening?

[00:05:30] Gosh, like 18, 19 years old.

[00:05:33] Okay.

[00:05:33] Very young.

[00:05:35] So I felt maybe turning 20.

[00:05:38] Like it was like, it was like total foot in your mouth.

[00:05:41] And then I would avoid him because I was so embarrassed.

[00:05:43] And then I was like, okay, I need to stop the weirdness.

[00:05:46] And then I got to know him.

[00:05:48] And we became really good friends for like four years.

[00:05:53] Like we were buddies.

[00:05:54] Okay.

[00:05:55] Like I, like, and he was one of the people like I felt like family and I felt very comfortable with.

[00:06:02] Um, so, um, to the point where like I was setting him up with other people because I was in denial, denial, denial.

[00:06:10] Oh, so, okay.

[00:06:11] So you met him when you were somewhere in your early college.

[00:06:15] Yeah.

[00:06:15] Was he going to the same college as well?

[00:06:17] No.

[00:06:17] No, he was at a different school.

[00:06:18] Okay.

[00:06:18] So two different schools.

[00:06:19] Yeah.

[00:06:20] Same church.

[00:06:21] Yes.

[00:06:21] But different.

[00:06:22] Like different groups.

[00:06:25] And every once in a while, like the campus students would kind of get together and have like a, what we would call a congregational meetup, like a congregational campus devotional was the formal term.

[00:06:35] And that's where we would get to know each other.

[00:06:37] And that happened like maybe once a month, once every few months, it wasn't frequent.

[00:06:41] Okay.

[00:06:41] So that's how we got to meet and, and I'll be honest, like he was not what I thought.

[00:06:49] I had no clue this was going to be my future husband.

[00:06:52] Okay.

[00:06:53] So we were good friends.

[00:06:54] Um, and a lot of, um, how our friendship built was, we would volunteer.

[00:06:59] We would find ourselves volunteering at the same events, like serving kids, serving like the community.

[00:07:05] Um, he, he was always there and I was always there.

[00:07:08] Cause I guess both of us bonded over as the same spirit of giving service.

[00:07:13] Um, and then also like when he found out I was taking film studies in my school, like in university, he would crash my classes when he found that like my class was to watch a screening of, I was taking a contemporary popular American film class.

[00:07:27] So he was like, you're watching empire strikes back for school.

[00:07:31] And I was like, yeah, he's like, can I come?

[00:07:32] And I was like, yeah, sure.

[00:07:33] And so then he would just come along and tag along.

[00:07:36] So that was like, we also bonded over like our love of movies.

[00:07:40] Um, but we were just really great friends first.

[00:07:45] And he actually dated somebody else in our church.

[00:07:49] And that's when I started to realize, Hey, maybe I have feelings cause I'm not thrilled about this, but then I also have to go, Hey, if he's my friend and I love him that way, I need to, if she makes him happy, I'm going to be supportive and put myself aside.

[00:08:03] And that takes a lot of integrity.

[00:08:05] Yeah.

[00:08:06] It was so funny.

[00:08:07] Like, again, I never pictured like this was going to be my future husband one day.

[00:08:11] I didn't even think about dating him.

[00:08:12] And I have to confess, like there was a part of me, you know, because of the trauma of my past.

[00:08:19] And, you know, because of the messages from when I was young, there was this standard of white European beauty standards.

[00:08:25] So you kind of, you know, I got into that mode of like, well, I can only marry this because this is what's value.

[00:08:32] And to start to see through my journey that that's not necessarily, that's not true.

[00:08:37] It's every person has value was the ultimate boon.

[00:08:41] And so then I opened myself up to having friendships and relations with people from all over the world.

[00:08:48] I went on dates with people from all different backgrounds.

[00:08:51] And it was really cool because I got to learn more like geography was always one of my weakest subjects, but I got to learn about those parts of the world or that culture or something new.

[00:09:00] And I was became like the sponge.

[00:09:02] So with Venus, who came from an Indian background, was born and raised in the Middle East, and then came to Canada as a young teen, there was so much to learn from him.

[00:09:12] And that was one of the things that drew me to him.

[00:09:14] I felt like every conversation we had, he was opening up so many doors.

[00:09:19] And I also think I'd like to, I hope that I was also returning that as well.

[00:09:23] I was showing him things that, you know, I had grown up with and exposing him to new stuff as well.

[00:09:28] And that was kind of where things started to really click.

[00:09:31] So it sounds like you had some really great gifts in there, some good boons.

[00:09:34] So you and Venus started out as friends.

[00:09:37] Yes.

[00:09:37] From the same church.

[00:09:39] Yes.

[00:09:39] That's wonderful.

[00:09:40] What a gift.

[00:09:41] Yeah.

[00:09:41] Right.

[00:09:42] And then to meet somebody who has a diverse background like yourself.

[00:09:46] Yes.

[00:09:46] You both bring so much diversity to that relationship.

[00:09:50] Yeah.

[00:09:51] That's incredible.

[00:09:51] Like different perspectives or different points of views.

[00:09:53] And then, you know, because his formative years wasn't in a Western world conduct, he's able to straddle multi-perspective on life.

[00:10:03] And that was kind of like, well, that related to how I felt like having, you know, being raised in a family from a very Eastern culture and Eastern history to, but also adapting to life in the West.

[00:10:16] And, and, and I also saw like how confident he was.

[00:10:20] He would, let's go for Indian food.

[00:10:21] Oh, you know, this is how they do in India.

[00:10:23] He wouldn't be phased.

[00:10:24] It was just natural to him.

[00:10:26] Cause as a young person, he had a lot of exposure.

[00:10:28] Yes.

[00:10:29] He would travel to India as well.

[00:10:31] He, I mean, his father worked for an airline, so he got to go around the world.

[00:10:37] Oh, so he really had a lot of exposure to diversity already.

[00:10:41] Yes.

[00:10:41] He had an uncle in Germany.

[00:10:43] He had aunts and uncles in Australia.

[00:10:45] He visited and been in many countries.

[00:10:49] Oh, so he's a huge part of your journey and learning.

[00:10:53] Big.

[00:10:53] Okay.

[00:10:54] Big time.

[00:10:55] All right.

[00:10:55] One of the things you told me to, I know we didn't talk about this, but I'm going to read up anyway.

[00:10:59] One of the, one time when we were talking, you said one of the things that you admired about him was his leadership.

[00:11:04] Yes.

[00:11:05] Tell us about that.

[00:11:07] So he's someone that really makes you comfortable.

[00:11:10] He was the first person that I dated.

[00:11:13] We were friends for like over four years.

[00:11:16] We hung out a lot, but he never asked me on an actual like date, like an actual proper date.

[00:11:21] And I remember when he asked me up for dinner, it was terrifying because it was a very different space.

[00:11:26] And I'm glad I accepted.

[00:11:28] And he told me later, he was also very terrified to ask that.

[00:11:32] Even though we were comfortable with each other, but the idea of like, hey, if things don't work out, this could really hurt.

[00:11:37] But he made me feel so safe.

[00:11:40] Like he would take care of me.

[00:11:42] I think it was one of the things we were bonded with in each other is that we're caretakers.

[00:11:46] We're sensitive to how others may feel or perceive us or whatever.

[00:11:52] And we want people to feel comfortable.

[00:11:54] He tries to get people to feel comfortable.

[00:11:56] He doesn't try to struggle on people, but then he'll also present like his thinking and the logic behind what he thinks.

[00:12:03] And that taught me to kind of go like, this isn't about bullying someone into believing or understanding something or accepting something.

[00:12:09] It's about like getting them to see a point of view.

[00:12:13] And then he was also, he was raised in a family with strong boundaries and limits.

[00:12:18] So with that, he would respect boundaries and limits.

[00:12:23] Being able to say no was very foreign to me.

[00:12:26] Like it, and it doesn't, it wasn't necessarily an act of hate or whatever, or disrespect.

[00:12:30] That's, this is the extent of what I can give in setting those boundaries and limits.

[00:12:34] It was something I had to learn from early in our marriage and it was life changing.

[00:12:40] And an attractive quality.

[00:12:42] Incredibly.

[00:12:43] Yeah.

[00:12:43] Especially because you're in the middle of your journey.

[00:12:45] Yes.

[00:12:46] Of being open to all of these new ideas.

[00:12:49] Yes.

[00:12:50] Awesome.

[00:12:51] Oh my gosh.

[00:12:52] You guys have such an amazing relationship.

[00:12:54] You have such a sweet husband.

[00:12:56] Let's not talk about some of the key lessons you've learned about relationships along your journey.

[00:13:01] Okay.

[00:13:02] Well, I mean, along that journey alluded to earlier, I had to really confront the both external

[00:13:10] racism experience and ultimately the internal racism I had experienced.

[00:13:15] And then being open to building and meeting friends of, you know, people from different

[00:13:20] races and different backgrounds.

[00:13:22] I felt like the definitive chapter was opening myself up to loving and dating and then eventually

[00:13:28] marrying someone who was from a different background and race from me and from what I was used to.

[00:13:36] So that was huge.

[00:13:37] And then it helped me to be like, really foster that conviction of like accepting every person

[00:13:44] I come across.

[00:13:45] Because who knows?

[00:13:46] Like, like I said, I had no idea this guy was going to be in my future husband one day.

[00:13:50] So you never know like that person you're meeting that you're talking to, like where that journey

[00:13:55] together, where that friendship or relationship can grow from there.

[00:13:59] There's so much possibility and to not limit yourself just because of this, that or the other,

[00:14:05] whether it's a disability or whether it's a perspective or a value system.

[00:14:13] There's always something that you can learn from that person.

[00:14:16] I love that.

[00:14:18] You're learning this with Venus and you're taking this into your life moving forward.

[00:14:21] Right.

[00:14:22] I love that.

[00:14:23] Okay.

[00:14:23] So you guys get married, right?

[00:14:25] Yeah.

[00:14:26] And we said you've been married for, for 22 years.

[00:14:30] I know.

[00:14:30] Stuff is a yesterday.

[00:14:32] It does.

[00:14:34] So you're taking this lesson with you.

[00:14:36] Mm-hmm.

[00:14:37] What other lessons are you getting along the way?

[00:14:39] So, and because we had met in a faith-based environment, we both have the conviction of

[00:14:45] learning about God and walking with God and having that relationship and really talking

[00:14:49] about God's unconditional love and also challenging each other in the same way God's love is unconditional

[00:14:58] and embraces everybody to live that, to be that example.

[00:15:02] And you're getting to do this with Venus because you're from the same church.

[00:15:06] Yes.

[00:15:06] Think of the example, like when we think of like Jesus who came in human form as a human

[00:15:10] goes to connect with people on their level.

[00:15:14] You know, I mean, he was persecuted for hanging out with prostitutes and drunkards as,

[00:15:18] you know, he was, he was accused of, but he wore it like a badge of honor.

[00:15:22] And I need to follow and imitate that level of loving.

[00:15:27] And, and that's so amazing because I think about like in the past where I would be fearful

[00:15:32] and hold back, I wouldn't have the foundation of friends and connections that I have today

[00:15:39] because I'm gay.

[00:15:41] Let me get to know this person and, and, and see each person as an individual.

[00:15:47] This person has a story, great decisions or poor decisions.

[00:15:50] Every person was loved, like, like comes with emotions and feelings and experiences.

[00:15:56] They have their own joys and victories, but they also have their trauma and their pain.

[00:16:00] And then to learn, to try to bond through that connection of what can I learn from this

[00:16:06] person?

[00:16:07] What, what wisdom can they share with me?

[00:16:10] Even if it's to say, Hey, don't do what I did, but that's still incredibly valuable.

[00:16:16] I feel honored.

[00:16:16] It's a gift that they would share with me through that journey.

[00:16:20] I learned the skill and gift of adaptability before it was adapting to survive.

[00:16:26] Cause I didn't want to look too different or be weird or whatever and not be accepted.

[00:16:31] Now I've be able to pivot that the spirit of adaptation.

[00:16:35] It's not about people pleasing, but it's about helping people to connect and we have a connection.

[00:16:42] So then it's a place where I can inject my authenticity, be a safe place and accept that person so that they can feel safe to be vulnerable.

[00:16:51] I love that you said that you adapted when you were younger to survive and you've taken that skill and just used it in a different way.

[00:17:00] I love that.

[00:17:00] I've always referred to it as being a chameleon where I can adapt to my environment.

[00:17:05] And I did it as a young person to survive, blend in so that I wouldn't stand up.

[00:17:11] But you're using it now to adapt yourself, to help you understand where other people are coming from.

[00:17:17] Exactly.

[00:17:19] That's beautiful.

[00:17:19] I've never really thought about, you know, taking those skills that you learn as a young person and using them, just transforming them into another usable tool.

[00:17:30] Pain and trauma is something I think every person can relate to on some level.

[00:17:33] The reasons for those pain and trauma is not necessarily identical, but we can understand when someone's hurting and we can understand, well, what do they need?

[00:17:43] They need comfort.

[00:17:44] They need relief.

[00:17:45] They need something.

[00:17:47] And that's something we can all try to support with one another.

[00:17:51] And also to know that that pain needs to be validated, that you're not crazy for feeling this way.

[00:17:56] It's there.

[00:17:57] The first step towards healing is to be able to accept it.

[00:18:00] That's a real gift to be able to empathize with somebody else.

[00:18:04] I think you shared that you have one more key point or key lesson that you took with you.

[00:18:08] Oh, yes.

[00:18:09] So I also had to learn to listen to be curious.

[00:18:14] Like I think for a long time when I was, you know, less mature, it was about arguing to be right.

[00:18:20] But that's not what necessarily people need.

[00:18:23] It's listening to understand and to go, hey, this isn't about me.

[00:18:28] This is about elevating the person beside me and helping them to feel validated as a person.

[00:18:37] And then usually in turn, I find that they return, they come back and do the same for me.

[00:18:43] And, you know, and I like to dream of a world where everybody did that with one another.

[00:18:48] So, but really taking the stance of like being outward focused and not making it about me.

[00:18:55] If we can really, you know, when we think about golden rule or treat others as you wish to be treated.

[00:19:00] If everybody did that with respect and with grace and with dignity and we treated every person like that.

[00:19:08] And not assume what that person needs, but to give them the dignity to go like, hey, how can I help?

[00:19:14] How can I be an instrument?

[00:19:16] How can I make sure that I'm a safe space that this person understands I'm safe and I'm an ally and I'm a support.

[00:19:24] I'm not a hostile enemy.

[00:19:26] I feel like that was the big muscle I really had to grow in.

[00:19:32] And the more I exercised it, the more I saw it come back to me where others would treat me in the same way.

[00:19:38] I love that you say exercise it because listening to understand is a skill.

[00:19:45] I think it's something people have to work on all the time.

[00:19:48] I know I have to work on it all the time.

[00:19:51] Is my job right now to listen to understand or is it am I listening to respond?

[00:19:56] And most of the time I find people want you just to listen.

[00:19:59] Yes.

[00:20:00] Just to listen to understand.

[00:20:02] Yeah, they don't want a response.

[00:20:03] Like you said, when you're responding, it's usually because it's about me.

[00:20:06] Yeah, but if I'm listening to understand I'm keeping it about you.

[00:20:10] Exactly.

[00:20:10] And the whole like and I always have to go back to you and sometimes like I struggle with that all the time and I have to go, okay, this person has value.

[00:20:17] This person has worth.

[00:20:19] I need to just listen, you know, they're there for whatever reason they're in my path.

[00:20:23] There's there's a reason for this.

[00:20:25] Let me just listen and let me learn.

[00:20:28] Yeah, and it's hard.

[00:20:29] It's a muscle that you have to work on.

[00:20:31] I know when I first started having sponsors, I know we've talked about how I have a sponsor, but I also have sponsors.

[00:20:36] Yeah, and I used to say to my sponsor.

[00:20:38] What do I do?

[00:20:39] And she said Mandy your job is to listen.

[00:20:42] Yeah, you know, that's it.

[00:20:45] Yeah, you know, it's a whole idea.

[00:20:46] We're not giving advice.

[00:20:47] We're just listening.

[00:20:48] Yes, that's the thing to understand good for you and and to walk with another person.

[00:20:52] I know our stance was no you should statements.

[00:20:54] I was very you should to this person and I was upset with this person because they weren't taking my advice.

[00:21:00] And then I start to realize it's not what my wisdom is not going to help them.

[00:21:05] And it had to take humble pie.

[00:21:07] Okay, this isn't about me.

[00:21:08] This is about that person.

[00:21:09] What does that person need from me?

[00:21:11] And that person just needs me to walk with them.

[00:21:13] Hold their hand.

[00:21:14] Exactly.

[00:21:17] And ultimately to trust God that okay, whatever lesson they're going to learn is going to come from above.

[00:21:22] It's not about me.

[00:21:24] Because ultimately they're the ones that are going to live with the consequence, not me.

[00:21:27] Like, you know, like, I'm not saying it's none of my business, but it's more of a, I need to give them that dignity and respect to respect their choice.

[00:21:36] Even if I completely disagree with it.

[00:21:37] And I don't love it.

[00:21:38] But their value and worth as an individual, they have that right to make that decision.

[00:21:44] My job is to listen and to walk with them and to go, okay, I'm with you.

[00:21:51] Our next question then kind of leads right from what we're talking about.

[00:21:55] In what ways has your journey equipped you with tools to handle conflicts?

[00:21:59] Okay.

[00:22:00] So one example I'm thinking of was, so when we first moved to the US, I wasn't working, but I was volunteering a lot.

[00:22:08] And I was volunteering in my son's elementary school parent teacher organization.

[00:22:12] Mm-hmm .

[00:22:13] Mm-hmm .

[00:22:13] And I somehow found myself in one of the executive roles.

[00:22:19] I was like, okay, I don't know how I got here, but I'm here to serve, I'm here to help.

[00:22:23] And it was also a chance for me to kind of learn that culture, like what an American school experience was going to be like.

[00:22:29] Because, you know, where, when I grew up, there was, as far as I knew, there wasn't anything like that.

[00:22:34] There wasn't a parent teacher organization or parent group that would grow.

[00:22:39] And I mean, they work hard. They work hard to give the best experience they could possibly give.

[00:22:44] And there was one parent in particular who, for whatever reason, just bumped with the others.

[00:22:51] You know, others didn't get along with them.

[00:22:53] And I'm sad to say there was a lot of gossip about that person.

[00:22:56] And I could tell this person is spending a lot of time and energy.

[00:22:59] They want to help.

[00:23:01] And sure, maybe their approach was a bit rough, but I could see there's a desire.

[00:23:05] Time is your most valuable resource.

[00:23:07] Why would you spend your time and energy and effort in something that doesn't mean something to you?

[00:23:12] So I could tell this person cares about the kids and cares about the school.

[00:23:16] And wants to give back.

[00:23:17] And yeah, and wants to give ultimately.

[00:23:19] So I said to the rest of the executives, I'm going to take this person out for lunch.

[00:23:23] And I met up with this person for lunch.

[00:23:25] And this person came in guarded.

[00:23:27] I'm new here.

[00:23:28] This is a great chance for us to get to know each other.

[00:23:29] You know, let me get to know you.

[00:23:32] And by the end of lunch, we were laughing.

[00:23:34] And she let her guard down.

[00:23:36] And she said, I came in expecting to be yelled at.

[00:23:39] Because it's happened in the past.

[00:23:40] That whole idea.

[00:23:41] She's bringing that with her for that experience.

[00:23:43] Yeah.

[00:23:43] And I felt so sad.

[00:23:44] So then we actually became really good friends after that.

[00:23:48] I became that safe person for her in that school environment.

[00:23:51] So then she relaxed.

[00:23:52] And then she became one of our greatest volunteers.

[00:23:54] For me, it was about how can I make this person who doesn't feel welcome for whatever reason to feel welcome and to become feeling organic in the community?

[00:24:04] Because I know what it's like.

[00:24:05] I know what it's like to be ostracized or whatever.

[00:24:08] And she softened and wasn't so rough because she had one person in her corner.

[00:24:13] And then over time, she became a lot more accepted.

[00:24:15] Ultimately, that's what you want.

[00:24:16] Right. It's that idea that you talked about.

[00:24:18] You were able to understand her pain.

[00:24:21] Yeah.

[00:24:21] That she had experienced.

[00:24:23] Yeah.

[00:24:24] Because you had suffered a similar pain.

[00:24:26] Exactly.

[00:24:26] I think sometimes when you're an immigrant to a country, you see these institutions and these infrastructures, but you kind of don't know how to fit in.

[00:24:33] So you kind of just stayed at the sidelines.

[00:24:36] So my son used to take the bus to school and there was a large Indian community in my neighborhood.

[00:24:42] I was kind of new.

[00:24:43] And I walked up to one of the moms.

[00:24:45] I'd see them kind of standing at the bus stop.

[00:24:48] And I'd start talking to them.

[00:24:49] And then I said, you might be asking where do you guys get groceries?

[00:24:52] And they kind of named off like your standard American stores.

[00:24:55] And I said, no, no, no.

[00:24:56] I'm looking for, and I named off a few like Indian ingredients.

[00:25:00] My husband's actually Indian.

[00:25:02] We like to make some Indian dishes.

[00:25:04] And getting onto that common ground, I got pulled into their community.

[00:25:08] They used to go for walks.

[00:25:09] We would walk together.

[00:25:10] And because then when I became one of the executives in the parent teacher organization, I would encourage them to come volunteer.

[00:25:17] Your kids go to this school.

[00:25:18] We need your help.

[00:25:20] And then it was so cool to see how initially they didn't feel they would be welcome to seeing them, you know, taking charge on certain activities.

[00:25:29] Because I knew what it was like to be new.

[00:25:32] I was new.

[00:25:33] And I was like, hey, I'm new too.

[00:25:35] Let's all call me new together.

[00:25:39] And let's just try to help out with service, using service and contribute towards the community.

[00:25:45] And so it was really cool to start to see how it went from like a mostly just American team of volunteers to groups that you didn't really see before.

[00:25:55] Multicultural.

[00:25:56] Yeah.

[00:25:57] And I think a lot of it was they just needed that invitation.

[00:26:00] Please have a seat at this table.

[00:26:01] I love that you said you found a common ground.

[00:26:04] It goes back to the idea of the chameleon.

[00:26:06] You know, you're trying to create this common ground for people to be comfortable, like you talked about with your husband.

[00:26:13] You bring so many of that into these situations.

[00:26:16] So many of the lessons that you've talked about into these situations.

[00:26:19] So Karen, are there any other boons you want to share with us?

[00:26:22] Absolutely.

[00:26:23] Absolutely.

[00:26:23] Okay.

[00:26:24] My friendship with you.

[00:26:26] I'm honored.

[00:26:27] I definitely.

[00:26:27] So when we first moved here and we didn't really know anybody, and my son's a Boy Scout.

[00:26:33] And so we were checking out different scout troops to figure out which would be the one that would be the best fit for our son and for our family.

[00:26:40] And I remember like, I think we talked to like maybe six different groups.

[00:26:45] And I'm sorry to say not all of them were very welcoming.

[00:26:47] But then when I got in contact with you, you called me and we had a long conversation.

[00:26:52] I remember.

[00:26:53] And you related to, you know, having to move around for your significant other's career.

[00:26:59] And you were being the one inviting me to have a seat at your table.

[00:27:02] I remember having that conversation because I have moved so many times.

[00:27:06] We have that in common.

[00:27:07] Yeah.

[00:27:07] We keep moving with our husband's jobs.

[00:27:10] And we land in different places.

[00:27:11] And I am a very welcoming person because of that.

[00:27:14] Because I've had to move so many times in those communities that I was the most successful in were the ones that were super welcoming to me.

[00:27:21] Yes.

[00:27:22] So I tried to extend that to other people.

[00:27:24] And I knew we connected right away because you had moved.

[00:27:28] And I remember telling you, you have to come and check out our troop.

[00:27:32] It's super diverse.

[00:27:34] Yes.

[00:27:34] We have people from all over the world in one place.

[00:27:38] And I remember sharing that with you.

[00:27:40] And that really meant a lot.

[00:27:42] And I feel like the combination of my boons, I could see in the life my son is leading.

[00:27:47] We connected through Boy Scouts and he's having a fantastic time with his troop.

[00:27:51] But also he was just sharing.

[00:27:53] Houston is such a diverse city.

[00:27:55] You can eat around the world.

[00:27:57] You can walk down the street and meet people from a different place and learn something new.

[00:28:02] One of the things that I loved the story that my son came home with was at lunchtime,

[00:28:08] he was sharing about how they would trade things from their lunch with each other.

[00:28:13] One of the kids that he would eat lunch with and is still friends with to this day came from a very Chinese background.

[00:28:19] And his mom would pack him a very traditional Chinese lunch.

[00:28:23] And my son was trading his snack for this boy's soy sauce eggs.

[00:28:28] Oh!

[00:28:29] Whereas like when I was a kid growing up, I would be mocked in school.

[00:28:32] But then when my son did that and traded him for the soy sauce egg, because he loves soy sauce eggs,

[00:28:38] all the kids around the table were talking about how awesome soy sauce eggs are.

[00:28:42] And oh, you know, how do you make them?

[00:28:44] You know, it goes to show like, I'd love to hope and believe that our world's growing

[00:28:49] in this generation of acceptance and inclusion.

[00:28:53] To hear like the things that I used to be teased about are now considered strengths.

[00:28:57] Eating sushi is so trendy now.

[00:28:59] To see how we're growing.

[00:29:01] And I really believe a lot of it's also for one another relationships.

[00:29:04] I just thought it was so cool that he feels super safe and able to do that in a school lunch environment.

[00:29:12] Really, we're just inviting each other into the world and sharing that peace.

[00:29:16] The more we do that, I really believe we can have that world we dream of.

[00:29:21] I think it's one of the beautiful parts about where we live.

[00:29:24] Yeah.

[00:29:25] I'm very fortunate that we have had this opportunity to live here because the schools are so diverse.

[00:29:31] Well, I am so glad you made that phone call that day.

[00:29:33] I'm so glad.

[00:29:35] And thank you.

[00:29:36] I'm honored to be one of your bigs.

[00:29:38] We have one last question for you.

[00:29:40] Speaking of community, what role has community played in your journey?

[00:29:45] And how have you worked to strengthen that sense of community for others?

[00:29:49] Community is so important.

[00:29:52] Community, I really believe it is what your world is made of.

[00:29:57] It's how we engage.

[00:29:58] It's how we function.

[00:30:00] Well, I think as humans, we want human connection, right?

[00:30:03] Yes.

[00:30:04] And even in situations where you feel hurt, I've heard someone share about the cure for

[00:30:12] addiction is community.

[00:30:14] And I really believe it's not just addiction.

[00:30:17] It's for so much pain and so much trauma and heartache.

[00:30:21] It's feeling that sense of connection that someone's cheerleading for you, someone's supporting you, someone understands you, someone validates you.

[00:30:31] And the more we can add to that, the better.

[00:30:34] But I also learned that it starts with me.

[00:30:36] I can't expect the community to come to me.

[00:30:38] I have to go and contribute and be generous with that community.

[00:30:43] It's kind of like the catalyst to making it all work and understanding that our responsibility is to go out on that leap of faith and give first.

[00:30:55] And to serve others.

[00:30:56] Yes.

[00:30:57] And to also accept and understand when people are coming from a place of hurt, being the first to go, how can I be a place of healing?

[00:31:05] How can I be a space that people feel safe so that they can recover to the point where they feel in a place that they can give again?

[00:31:13] You're saying about the human connection and validating other people is so important.

[00:31:18] Yeah.

[00:31:19] Knowing you're not alone.

[00:31:20] You mentioned that too.

[00:31:21] You know, when my husband sent me that link today for a podcast because I've been struggling with empty nesting.

[00:31:26] Yeah.

[00:31:27] And I listened to this famous podcaster talking about her being an empty nester too.

[00:31:32] Yeah.

[00:31:32] I thought, oh my gosh, you know, I'm not the only one going through this.

[00:31:36] There's so many people going.

[00:31:37] She said her inbox is full of people asking about this particular topic.

[00:31:42] So I just thought, oh, I'm not alone.

[00:31:44] Yeah.

[00:31:44] I think it's so valuable that you give that back to the world.

[00:31:47] And I'd like to hope that I can pay that forward and share.

[00:31:51] And I hope someone learned something from me today that will benefit them and strengthen them.

[00:31:56] I love that.

[00:31:57] Even if we reach just one person.

[00:31:59] I know this to be true about you.

[00:32:01] I just, you're so full of love and compassion and authenticity.

[00:32:05] I just want to say thank you so much for sharing your story with everybody.

[00:32:09] I know at first you really didn't want to do this, but I am so glad you did.

[00:32:15] So thank you.

[00:32:16] Thank you very much.

[00:32:17] Speaking of thanks.

[00:32:18] We want to thank a special someone who has been very instrumental in our podcast journey.

[00:32:24] Yes.

[00:32:24] So we're going to give a big shout out to our dear friend, Angie, who has been spending countless

[00:32:28] hours designing our website for us.

[00:32:31] So you can now find us at www.monomythdiaries.com.

[00:32:35] Feel free to go and check us out.

[00:32:37] We'd really appreciate it.

[00:32:38] So now you can reach us at our email monomythdiaries at gmail.com.

[00:32:43] Or you can message us through our website once again monomythdiaries.com.

[00:32:48] And now that we're up and running, we're looking forward to hearing from you and discussing some

[00:32:51] of your monomyths and future episodes.

[00:32:53] So thank you so much for joining me on my monomyth today.

[00:32:56] It's been an honor and a pleasure to share with you.

[00:32:59] I hope something I shared inspires, moves or helps you out.

[00:33:02] And I'm really looking forward to the next time that we get to be together with all of

[00:33:06] you.

[00:33:07] Thank you for joining us today.

[00:33:09] If you enjoyed this episode, please share, hit like, subscribe, and follow us on YouTube

[00:33:15] and wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:33:17] Feel free to email us at monomythdiaries at gmail.com with your monomyth and keep the conversations

[00:33:24] going.

[00:33:24] Until next time, heroes, let's journey together through stories.

[00:33:28] And you can find alaunting, safeguard that Luke Armstrong and FPT sound.

[00:33:28] Of the rest in the rest of our orchestrated area of gmail and tours that love legacy,

[00:33:28] the kayu'sduction Mobile and Cody 192 in the world.

[00:33:28] And we're focusing on your held無所,रgue Jews.

[00:33:29] Now we'll lead this to our property glove the actual underwear that's the

[00:33:29] Tina'sministricêtre and Unoides.

[00:33:29] Hi.

[00:33:29] Thank you for the metaphorical point.