Ep 7 - Cyndi's Unseen Struggles (part 1)

[00:00:05] Hi everyone, and welcome to the Monomyth Diaries, a bi-monthly podcast where ordinary people get to share their hero's journey.

[00:00:12] I'm Mandi.

[00:00:13] And I'm Karen, and we'll be your hosts. Each episode will feature a hero who will share their journey of growth.

[00:00:20] We'll hear stories about forgiveness, survival, determination, and much more.

[00:00:25] We're glad you're joining us because we all have a monomyth to share and someone out there needs to hear it.

[00:00:32] Welcome back to the Monomyth Diaries, where it's a take what you like and lead the rest podcast.

[00:00:38] Today we have the opportunity to take the show on the road. Mandi, can you tell us where are we?

[00:00:43] Mandi Absolutely. We are recording today from The Cottages, which is a co-working space here in Katy, Texas.

[00:00:50] And it is owned by Hi Ho and Cindy Dinh, some friends of mine.

[00:00:55] Cindy and I met each other actually through our husbands, and she has an absolutely incredible story to share with you today.

[00:01:02] We found it truly inspirational, and we hope y'all do too.

[00:01:05] Please join us as we welcome Cindy to our podcast.

[00:01:09] Cindy, welcome to the podcast.

[00:01:11] Thanks for having me. I'm really excited.

[00:01:13] I'm so glad. We're going to start off with some monomyth story starters.

[00:01:17] We're going to ask you a series of quick questions. Feel free to elaborate if you want.

[00:01:22] You ready? Yeah, let's do it.

[00:01:24] So Cindy, sweet or savory? Sweet.

[00:01:27] What's one thing you can't live without?

[00:01:30] My kids.

[00:01:33] What is your dream vacation?

[00:01:36] Oh, I love being like near water.

[00:01:38] So, you know, I don't necessarily have to be in the water.

[00:01:42] So something beachy, anywhere really. Nice, warm, balmy.

[00:01:47] What's your favorite way to spend a Sunday?

[00:01:49] Well, we normally go to church, and it's just a relaxed day.

[00:01:53] No cleaning, cooking, just go to church, come home, relax with the family.

[00:01:58] Maybe some board games. That's fun too.

[00:02:00] No work.

[00:02:01] No work.

[00:02:01] No, especially board games.

[00:02:03] If you could live in any time period, when would it be?

[00:02:07] I would have to say when Jesus actually was here on this earth and was able to, I would have loved to have men.

[00:02:14] Yeah.

[00:02:15] And experience that.

[00:02:17] I would not think to do that.

[00:02:19] What's your biggest pet peeve?

[00:02:21] That's hard.

[00:02:22] Let's see.

[00:02:23] What do I get annoyed about the most?

[00:02:26] Probably right now would be people who are just not nice to other people for no reason on social media.

[00:02:32] Yes.

[00:02:33] You don't have to say anything if you don't have anything nice to say.

[00:02:36] But like, why do you feel the need to say something negative?

[00:02:39] I don't know.

[00:02:39] Just, that would be my pet peeve.

[00:02:41] So Cindy, what is your favorite childhood memory?

[00:02:43] I grew surrounded by a lot of cousins.

[00:02:46] And especially being born in the year of the dragon.

[00:02:48] And so I have a lot of male cousins.

[00:02:50] And so we would be outdoors a lot.

[00:02:52] I was considered a tomboy.

[00:02:54] So I, my, I would climb trees and there was this magnolia tree that we would just sometimes climb.

[00:03:00] And if you know anything about magnolia flowers before it blooms, you know, you can actually peel it out.

[00:03:06] And there's like this, the pollen, like the yellow pollen with musas grenades.

[00:03:13] I'm just sorry.

[00:03:14] Anyways, it made for a messy yard, but.

[00:03:17] I had no idea you could do that.

[00:03:19] No, yeah.

[00:03:20] We should try it.

[00:03:21] We have a lot of magnolia trees on our, or at home.

[00:03:24] So we could try that one day.

[00:03:25] Is that what produces all the yellow pollen that we can all over our cars?

[00:03:30] I don't know.

[00:03:31] No, I don't think so.

[00:03:32] No.

[00:03:32] I don't know.

[00:03:33] Okay.

[00:03:34] I was curious.

[00:03:35] You know that time of year in Texas where everything is covered in that yellow?

[00:03:38] Your car, your windows, everything.

[00:03:40] No, it's the actual magnolia flowers, but I could do wrong.

[00:03:43] I have to look that up now.

[00:03:44] I don't know.

[00:03:45] A magnolia little pollen bombs.

[00:03:49] Pollen bombs.

[00:03:50] Yes.

[00:03:52] That would be one of my memories.

[00:03:55] What's something on your bucket list?

[00:03:58] Bucket list.

[00:03:59] I would love to go to Rome.

[00:04:02] And, you know, just, I don't know, just go and explore.

[00:04:06] I would love to go.

[00:04:08] Yeah.

[00:04:08] That's my bucket list.

[00:04:10] Me too.

[00:04:11] Okay.

[00:04:11] Go together.

[00:04:12] Yes.

[00:04:13] So if you had one wish, what would it be?

[00:04:16] One wish.

[00:04:19] I mean, I know world peace is kind of like, everyone's like, go to answer.

[00:04:23] I guess for me, it would be just, you know, having like my family get together, including

[00:04:31] my mom and dad, cause they're divorced now.

[00:04:34] Mm-hmm.

[00:04:34] To really be at peace with it.

[00:04:36] You know, to be accepting of it.

[00:04:38] And, you know, cause we have this conversation like, well, what if the grandkids get married?

[00:04:42] Who do we invite?

[00:04:43] Grandma or grandpa?

[00:04:44] You know, and it's always a difficult thing when it's not about us.

[00:04:49] It's about the bride and the groom for that day or for any occasion.

[00:04:52] It doesn't have to be a wedding.

[00:04:53] But just to be able to come together and not, you know, really drag the past in because the

[00:05:00] past is the past.

[00:05:01] We were who we were back then and we're different now.

[00:05:04] We can accept the past and just move forward.

[00:05:06] So that would be my, my wish.

[00:05:08] Okay.

[00:05:09] I love that.

[00:05:10] More practical, right?

[00:05:12] The beautiful one though.

[00:05:15] For sure.

[00:05:16] What's your biggest fear?

[00:05:19] Um, of course, you know, death comes to us all, but my biggest fear would probably be not

[00:05:27] dying necessarily, but getting sick to where I'm here, but not physically, like I'm physically

[00:05:31] here, but mentally I'm gone and not being, you know, then putting that burden on my kids.

[00:05:36] I think that's a big fear of mine, not wanting to burden them with taking care of me physically.

[00:05:43] So.

[00:05:43] Yeah.

[00:05:44] You are so thoughtful.

[00:05:46] I have to consider that because it's, you know, it's so when people think of dying,

[00:05:51] I mean, at least it's a finale.

[00:05:55] Like, you know, there's closure, but when you're physically not able to help yourself

[00:06:00] and someone has to care for you, that's hard.

[00:06:03] So.

[00:06:04] Yeah.

[00:06:05] I think that might be all my questions.

[00:06:07] That was it.

[00:06:08] Okay.

[00:06:09] I thought it would be harder.

[00:06:11] I'm like, Oh, that's hard questions.

[00:06:13] All right.

[00:06:14] So Cindy, we're so glad to have you here.

[00:06:17] Can you tell us a little bit about your childhood and what cultural expectations were for you in

[00:06:23] your family and in your community?

[00:06:26] Sure.

[00:06:27] And so my parents are from Vietnam.

[00:06:29] They came over during the fall of Saigon of April of 1975.

[00:06:32] At that time, it was just my sister.

[00:06:35] She was under one.

[00:06:36] And so imagine a family of three, whether a little, you know, not even a toddler yet,

[00:06:42] coming and just really creating a whole brand new life here in America.

[00:06:46] We were sponsored by a family in Wisconsin.

[00:06:50] And from there, my parents did move south for opportunities in New Orleans, which is where

[00:06:55] I was born a year later.

[00:06:57] And with that, my parents were just trying to make ends meet.

[00:07:01] It was really difficult financially for them.

[00:07:04] They didn't speak the language.

[00:07:06] They didn't understand the culture and being born in between that.

[00:07:11] So I first generation born in America.

[00:07:14] So there was expectations, right?

[00:07:15] Expectations from, you know, our motherland of being Vietnamese and then being in the land

[00:07:20] of the free.

[00:07:21] So, I mean, I was kind of that first generation where I was born with expectations of how women

[00:07:29] or just as a female, I guess I can speak on behalf of being a female versus being born

[00:07:35] here in America.

[00:07:37] You know, there's a lot of cultural differences.

[00:07:39] Yeah.

[00:07:41] I did have my parents by 1982.

[00:07:44] We were a family of seven.

[00:07:46] So I have three younger brothers.

[00:07:48] So it was my sister, myself and three younger brothers.

[00:07:52] And so I can tell like how my parents treated the boys versus how, and not that they didn't

[00:07:58] love us.

[00:07:59] It was just different love, a different kind of expectation.

[00:08:02] It's like any group of generation.

[00:08:04] It's just the cycle, right?

[00:08:07] Like mom was born and raised as a housewife.

[00:08:10] You know, those are her expectation to be dutiful, to be obedient, to be submissive.

[00:08:14] Those were some of the traits that she was trying to pass down on to me.

[00:08:19] Right.

[00:08:20] And so growing up, it was difficult because, you know, I was watching a lot of shows like

[00:08:25] the Cosby show and, you know, the roles of a female there in those shows are a little

[00:08:30] bit different than what my mom was expecting of me.

[00:08:33] Like I was expected to learn how to cook and to clean and to cater and to serve.

[00:08:40] It was those duties that I resisted.

[00:08:46] And I don't know if I was being a teen, being resistant of those expectations.

[00:08:51] But while my brother, on the other hand, after dinner, they got to leave their plate, get up

[00:08:56] and do whatever they want to do.

[00:08:58] So I felt a lot of, you know, just this push and pull.

[00:09:03] I see I want to help my mom.

[00:09:05] On the other hand, it's like, well, why do I want to be like the boys?

[00:09:09] And as I was sharing earlier, I grew up with a lot of boys around me, three brothers and

[00:09:14] a lot of cousins who were dragons, you know, because I was born in the year of the dragon.

[00:09:18] And so I definitely felt like I want to be like the boys.

[00:09:22] I just want to eat and get up and go play.

[00:09:25] Why not? Right. Why can't I be like them?

[00:09:27] So there was a lot of that growing up.

[00:09:29] I mean, I thought we were all equal.

[00:09:30] We were living living in the free.

[00:09:31] I'm free. I should be free to do all these things.

[00:09:33] So that was kind of my childhood growing up.

[00:09:35] I mean, I can definitely see the difference in how my parents raised me and my brothers.

[00:09:42] The boys are going to be taking on the name of the family they're going to carry on.

[00:09:46] And, you know, it's a very patriarchal, like it's not created equally or fair, in my opinion,

[00:09:53] as I was growing up and I was, you know, probably a really bitter teen.

[00:09:57] So do you feel in your culture, do you feel like it's women are seen as less than?

[00:10:03] Yes, I do feel like we were seen to be at less of a value, less valuable.

[00:10:08] Like I said, I just guess it's a different type of value.

[00:10:11] You know, whereas we're valued to be the homemaker.

[00:10:14] We're valued to be the nurturers.

[00:10:16] We're valued to serve and to take care of the family.

[00:10:19] Those were the expectations as a female.

[00:10:23] Growing up in America, there was that struggle between like, you know, the expectation of being, you know,

[00:10:29] the motherland expectation versus the land of the free expectation.

[00:10:33] You know, the Vietnamese culture versus the American culture.

[00:10:37] There was just some vulnerability.

[00:10:38] You know, the Vietnamese culture versus the American culture.

[00:10:39] And it was a struggle for me because I was the first born here in America.

[00:10:43] So there was definitely a generational conflict between, you know, the Vietnamese culture and the American culture for me.

[00:10:52] And you mentioned before that you moved quite a bit when you were younger, too.

[00:10:57] Yes.

[00:10:57] Is that correct?

[00:10:58] Yes.

[00:10:58] We moved around quite a bit.

[00:11:01] You know, when we first, well, my parents first came to America, we were in Wisconsin.

[00:11:06] And then, you know, they moved south for opportunities in New Orleans and then from there back up north and then to Oklahoma, to Florida, to California.

[00:11:15] And it was a constant move.

[00:11:18] And part of it is, I understand the opportunities.

[00:11:21] And then they also were looking for where are their families at?

[00:11:24] You know, when they all came to America, they were all just kind of, they moved where the sponsors were.

[00:11:31] And so sometimes the sponsors were not.

[00:11:34] And I don't know, can you imagine back in the 70s?

[00:11:36] We didn't have internet.

[00:11:37] We didn't have the kind of communication tools that we have today.

[00:11:40] So it was just more like when they hear, oh, my family is in, you know, California.

[00:11:47] Let me move there and be with them.

[00:11:50] And it's a comfort thing, right?

[00:11:51] When you have family who understands and, you know, can help you and you can kind of stay together.

[00:11:57] So we constantly stayed together almost like an oral bubble as we started moving around.

[00:12:03] But yeah, we moved around quite a bit.

[00:12:05] So I had to, it's like every time we moved, it could be the middle of a school year.

[00:12:09] It doesn't have to be, oh, let's wait for summer to come around and then we move.

[00:12:13] No, it's just like, hey, we're going to move and we'll just pick up and go.

[00:12:18] So that was a challenge as well.

[00:12:20] Making friends and the stability of it.

[00:12:23] It was constant changes.

[00:12:27] How did observing your mom's experiences shape your understanding of gender roles for you?

[00:12:35] You know, I may have mentioned like my parents fought a lot growing up.

[00:12:42] And part of it or probably a big part of it was related to financial stress, right?

[00:12:48] Constantly trying to make ends meet and the struggle of, you know, not really speaking the language.

[00:12:55] And being a caregiver of five kids is not easy.

[00:12:59] And so my, you know, my, my mom on one hand is trying to feed and support and teach and raise the kids.

[00:13:06] And, you know, between two cultures, you know, that she's trying to learn as well.

[00:13:12] And then my dad trying to make ends meet with working two jobs or multiple jobs sometimes.

[00:13:18] I, I think with my mom and being, you know, that, you know, she too was trying to learn the difference.

[00:13:26] And, okay, I'm not in Vietnam anymore.

[00:13:28] And part of her, you know, her, you know, when she was raised, she was taught, you know, when you, when you get married, you're part of the husband's family.

[00:13:38] And you, you know, adapt to the husband's family's lifestyle, or you are serving the family.

[00:13:45] You are no longer part of your, you know, your parents' family.

[00:13:51] And so regardless of how they treat you, how they talk to you, how, you know, my, my, my dad could hit my mom.

[00:13:58] It physically hurt her.

[00:14:00] And it's part of partially, you know, it's her fault.

[00:14:04] Like, well, you should have not talked back, or you should have, you know, done this, or you, you know, it's always like what she shouldn't or should have done.

[00:14:12] And so, so seeing that, it was really hard for me to accept because, again, you know, I'm, I, I watched a lot of TV shows where the husband, you know, was really respectful to the wife or the wife was able to voice her opinions or her thoughts without really a lot of consequence other than mutual respect for that person's thoughts and, you know, actions.

[00:14:39] So I think in short, I feel like my, my mom's life, and the way she was raised, and how she really carried out her duties as a wife, as a daughter-in-law, as a mom, you know, was really to not also lose face.

[00:14:57] Because being in the Vietnamese culture, losing face was a big thing.

[00:15:02] Like, you don't do anything that will, even though she's no longer part of her family after she marries off, she's definitely not allowed to do anything that will bring a bad name to the family that she's left.

[00:15:16] So that was really difficult, too.

[00:15:18] It's like, it's like, you're damn if you do and damn if you don't kind of thing.

[00:15:23] So you endure, you accept, and you just, you know, even if she were to go home to her mom and dad, if she was in a physical abusive relationship, the parents will then say, you need to go back to your family.

[00:15:39] And it's expected.

[00:15:40] And it's expected.

[00:15:41] I know you briefly said that when you're younger, that you knew you didn't want to be like your mom, you know, because you're witnessing these things.

[00:15:50] And obviously, you don't like them.

[00:15:52] They make you uncomfortable.

[00:15:53] But you also told me before that you didn't have a particular role model.

[00:15:59] How do you think you got to the point where you knew that you didn't want to be your mom?

[00:16:05] Like, what's influencing you?

[00:16:07] Because you're in a Vietnamese culture with other Vietnamese people, right?

[00:16:11] You said you constantly moved to be with people that speak your language, you know, are culturally similar.

[00:16:17] How do you think you got there?

[00:16:19] Well, seeing what my mom had to endure in her relationship with my dad, I definitely didn't want to be a housewife.

[00:16:27] If that's what I was like, if being a housewife means you're, you know, you don't have a voice, you don't have, you know, you can't share your thoughts, you have to be, you know, obedient and, you know, be a servant.

[00:16:40] I didn't, I knew I just didn't want to be that.

[00:16:43] I didn't want the physical and the mental abuse of being in that kind of relationship because I associated that with being a wife and a housewife.

[00:16:54] Right. And so, you know, again, I was watching a lot of different TV shows and I saw the mutual respect of the husband and wife and a lot of those shows.

[00:17:02] And I know it's just a show, but that was my glimpse into what American culture looked like.

[00:17:09] Okay.

[00:17:10] And growing up again, I was in this bubble where I was around and surrounded by cousins whose parents were also going through the same thing my mom and dad was going through.

[00:17:18] Okay.

[00:17:18] It was very similar, you know, stories, just different households.

[00:17:22] And so I just thought that was normal.

[00:17:25] I want it out.

[00:17:26] I want it different.

[00:17:27] I just wanted to be like the Cosby's.

[00:17:30] And I didn't really have like a true role model because we lived in this bubble.

[00:17:33] Same family, same story, just different addresses.

[00:17:36] You know, I wanted to break out of that bubble to see what life is on the other side.

[00:17:40] When people have asked me, well, if you had three doors, which door would you choose?

[00:17:44] And if I knew this door already looked like my mom and dad's, I'm like, I don't want that door.

[00:17:49] I want to drive it out of that door.

[00:17:51] And it was a risk, right?

[00:17:53] It's a risk.

[00:17:53] And I didn't know.

[00:17:55] But that was kind of where I, in my mind, my little, you know, immature brain at that time was like, this is not what I wanted.

[00:18:04] So here, you're already reacting and pushing against these rules and these kind of expectations.

[00:18:10] When was this happening?

[00:18:12] Like, Alphark, how old were you?

[00:18:15] You know, what part of your life?

[00:18:17] My earliest childhood memory of like the physical fighting was probably when I was maybe four or five.

[00:18:26] It was before I went to school for sure.

[00:18:28] Wow.

[00:18:28] Yeah.

[00:18:28] Yeah.

[00:18:29] We were young.

[00:18:30] You know, all of us were really young.

[00:18:32] Just the, my dad would just at dinner sometimes just flip tables, you know, because they'd gone into an argument.

[00:18:39] And, you know, we're expected to clean the mess.

[00:18:42] I want to say the most impactful one that I remember that really just shook me to the core was when I was likely in fourth or fifth grade.

[00:18:52] You know, my, they got into an argument about something.

[00:18:56] And I know my grandmother, my aunt, they were all there and he still was like not able to control his temper.

[00:19:05] And, you know, next thing you know, like the cops, the ambulance were there.

[00:19:09] My mom was really hurt.

[00:19:10] And it was just that moment of, wow, like this has gotten really out of hand.

[00:19:18] And I remember my mom, like after she was, she got back from the hospital, she was so angry and heard that she built, picked us all up, packed us all our stuff.

[00:19:30] We were living in Louisiana at this time.

[00:19:31] And she got, I guess, a one-way bus trip from there all the way back up north to Wisconsin to where our sponsor family was to kind of get help.

[00:19:40] And I remember just, it was a long bus ride.

[00:19:44] And I got so sick.

[00:19:45] I was, I get motion sickness.

[00:19:48] I was super sick and the car's sick.

[00:19:50] And then when we got there, we were in a battered woman's shelter.

[00:19:54] I didn't know what it was called at that time.

[00:19:56] But now that, you know, I look back, oh yeah, that's what it really was.

[00:20:00] It was just a shelter for battered women.

[00:20:03] And I got so homesick there too.

[00:20:05] I just remember being sick all the time.

[00:20:07] I don't know quite how long we were there, but I knew that my mom was trying to seek help.

[00:20:15] Yeah.

[00:20:15] Trying to reach out for someone to help her.

[00:20:18] And there was all five of us, you know.

[00:20:20] Remember, there was like my sister and me and my three younger brothers.

[00:20:23] So we were there for a short period of time.

[00:20:25] And then all I remember is next thing you know, my dad shows up and then we're flying home back to Louisiana.

[00:20:32] So you're talking about this incident, but you're in elementary school.

[00:20:36] You're in fourth or fifth grade.

[00:20:38] Your grandmother, your aunts, your family are all there.

[00:20:41] And, you know, the police come up and then, you know, you guys get away for a bit and then your dad pulls you back.

[00:20:50] What kind of messages were you getting from all of this that from your family, from your community that's telling you about your worth?

[00:21:02] You know, I think as a woman and seeing that, I felt like my mom was saying that she was her worth is only as good as what her husband gives her.

[00:21:15] Like, you know, that you got to just accept and endure, you know, whatever it is and however he treats you.

[00:21:22] And I'm sure my dad was like, I'm going to try to change.

[00:21:26] I'm going to, you know, do certain things to try to make things better.

[00:21:30] I want, you know, like promises.

[00:21:34] And so for us, it was more of, you know, what my mom needed him too in a way, right?

[00:21:41] She financially couldn't support herself or her five kids.

[00:21:45] And we were so young at that time.

[00:21:48] And I'm sure there was a part of her that said, well, I have to, you know, try to make this work.

[00:21:55] One, not to lose face, right?

[00:21:58] Because divorce was just a big no-no in the family.

[00:22:01] It was not accepted.

[00:22:04] And on top of that, my mom was, you know, we were born and raised Catholic.

[00:22:08] And so a religious aspect of that kind of was intertwined with the cultural aspect of, well, you know, you till death do us part.

[00:22:18] So your mom probably felt this compelling to stay.

[00:22:22] Yes.

[00:22:23] Yes.

[00:22:24] And so there was probably a, you know, mixture of all of that.

[00:22:28] And so I have to say, you know, when it came to our worth and our value, it was just in a place where, you know, if you can just sacrifice a little bit more.

[00:22:42] It's all about sacrifice.

[00:22:44] You know, we were expected to sacrifice.

[00:22:46] As a mom, we're sacrificing.

[00:22:48] As a daughter, you're sacrificing.

[00:22:49] As a wife, you're sacrificing.

[00:22:50] You know, you've got to sacrifice your happiness, sacrifice your worth and your value and your, you know, your joy and your whatever.

[00:22:57] You just got to sacrifice it for the sake of your family.

[00:23:00] At the cost of your safety?

[00:23:02] Yes.

[00:23:03] Wow.

[00:23:04] Yeah.

[00:23:05] Sorry.

[00:23:05] I know.

[00:23:06] That's so unfortunate.

[00:23:07] Yeah.

[00:23:08] And I don't think in most people's mind, especially like, you know, talking to my aunt and uncle, they're like, well, you know, they're not going to go that far.

[00:23:20] You know what I mean?

[00:23:20] People just don't expect, you know, like, yeah, he got angry.

[00:23:24] He hurt me.

[00:23:25] He didn't mean to break my arm.

[00:23:26] You know, I think that's their mindset was just, we've gone through it.

[00:23:31] It doesn't get that bad.

[00:23:32] The worst it gets is, you know, maybe a bruise or a broken arm, you know, kind of thing.

[00:23:36] It minimizes it.

[00:23:37] It minimizes it.

[00:23:38] Yes, they do.

[00:23:39] So this carries on this sort of interaction between your mom and dad, all of your childhood.

[00:23:45] Yes.

[00:23:45] They were married for 40 something years.

[00:23:48] And then, so this carries on into high school.

[00:23:51] And I know at one point you said that you moved again because you did high school in Texas, right?

[00:23:55] My sister was a teenager before I was.

[00:23:58] She got a lot of the brunt of what's the word?

[00:24:00] I wouldn't say abuse, but punishment.

[00:24:02] And because, you know, she was a teenager first, right?

[00:24:05] Right.

[00:24:05] And so she ran away from home.

[00:24:08] And so there was a move from Louisiana to Texas to kind of help contain that.

[00:24:14] So we moved to this tiny little town called Palashas.

[00:24:18] And that was between my eighth grade and ninth grade year.

[00:24:22] And so just imagine again, here's another big move.

[00:24:25] I'm about to go into high school.

[00:24:27] And I'm expected to leave all, you know, the friends that I made in the last few years in Louisiana

[00:24:33] to start a new life and new, you know, identity, whatever it is in this small town called Flashes in Texas here.

[00:24:41] And, you know, she, it was, I think for us, my mom and dad was just like, well, again, sacrifice, right?

[00:24:50] My mom has to sacrifice.

[00:24:52] But that means we all have to learn how to sacrifice.

[00:24:54] We have to sacrifice for what they thought was best.

[00:24:58] And, yeah, the abuse, it didn't, it was a, it didn't matter where we were at.

[00:25:03] You know, my dad, when he was angry, if it was something my sister did, then I got, you know, a lot of that as well.

[00:25:10] Because then she left, she's like, I'm not dealing with this.

[00:25:12] I'm leaving.

[00:25:13] And so, and so for me, it was like, okay, my dad's angry now.

[00:25:16] And he just, you know, I look back and I questioned, like, even if he was mad at her,

[00:25:23] he's like, well, you know, I'm going to do this to teach you so that you don't run away and you don't, you know?

[00:25:27] And it was like, but I'm not hurt.

[00:25:29] You know, like I, in my mind at that time, you know, I think it was more of like, I'm not, I didn't do anything to deserve this punishment.

[00:25:40] You know, why are you hurting me?

[00:25:42] And it could be anything that triggered him at the time.

[00:25:45] And so I just remember there was this, I was a senior in high school.

[00:25:52] And, you know, at that time, we didn't have cell phones.

[00:25:55] And so if we had friends, they'll just have to call the house.

[00:25:58] And then, you know, both lines, my dad could pick up on one line and, you know, I could be picking up the other line.

[00:26:03] Well, someone had called and my younger brother is named Timmy, the one right after me.

[00:26:09] And I'm Cindy.

[00:26:10] So it sounds similar if you say it really fast.

[00:26:13] And so there was a guy, his friend called and asked for Timmy.

[00:26:17] And my dad thought that he was asking for Cindy.

[00:26:19] And he didn't ask any questions.

[00:26:22] And it was just that, like, he came and, you know, started hitting me closed fist and just was like, how dare you lie to me?

[00:26:30] You're seeing someone.

[00:26:31] Like, I wasn't allowed to date.

[00:26:33] I wasn't allowed to see someone, anyone.

[00:26:35] Because he was fearful that I would be like my sister, you know, run off and lose space for the family.

[00:26:40] There's all, all these, right?

[00:26:43] And, you know, and when my dad's in that state, there's nothing you can say.

[00:26:48] You're not supposed to, you know, you're supposed to be like, you're, you know, he's going to punish you.

[00:26:53] And then he'll ask questions later.

[00:26:57] And, you know, my, my, during that time.

[00:27:00] So I was, I was in the drill team for the dance team for three years.

[00:27:04] And so when you're in your dance team, you're wearing like sleeveless stuff, you know, so you're, and I felt so ashamed going to school.

[00:27:12] You know, I was one of those kids who were like, oh, where'd you get that bruise?

[00:27:15] How'd you hurt yourself?

[00:27:17] And then you just have to like make something up.

[00:27:19] Oh, you know, I bruise easily.

[00:27:21] I, you know, ran into the wall.

[00:27:23] You know, like I was one of those kids just having to explain what happened.

[00:27:27] Um, so during that period of time, you know, again, I know that's why I probably is so, to this day, I can understand like a teenager's mindset because I know I wasn't, I'm not mature enough to understand everything.

[00:27:47] But I also felt I can remember the feelings, you know, during that period of time, it was just so raw for me.

[00:27:54] And I was so bitter and angry too, though.

[00:27:57] And, you know, one of the things that I kept telling myself was I just cannot wait to leave.

[00:28:01] I can't wait to graduate.

[00:28:02] I can't wait to get out.

[00:28:04] I don't want it to be like this.

[00:28:06] I want it to be different.

[00:28:07] It sounds like one of the patterns in your parents' marriage were making geographical solutions.

[00:28:13] And I think you told me once that you tend to do the same thing.

[00:28:18] Can you tell us a little bit about that?

[00:28:19] Oh, absolutely.

[00:28:21] As soon as I graduated from high school, the day after, I was ready to move.

[00:28:25] So my solution was I'm going to move to go off to college and not just to any college.

[00:28:31] I'm like, I'm going to be as far away as I can be.

[00:28:35] And so my parents were living in Palacios, Texas at that time.

[00:28:38] Right.

[00:28:38] And I had family that was going to Louisiana State University, LSU.

[00:28:44] So my bright idea was I'm going to just move over there and go to school with them.

[00:28:50] And growing up, you know, the value of a female going to college was not something that they had planned for.

[00:28:58] So for me, they were like, well, you're going to their expectation was I'm going to, you know, get married, have kids and stay home with the kids as a housewife.

[00:29:06] I can imagine they weren't happy with you going to college.

[00:29:08] No, they were not very supportive.

[00:29:10] If anything, they thought I was wasting my money and my time and effort and not being obedient.

[00:29:16] And so I left anyway without their support, without any money, no 529 plan saved for me, no car.

[00:29:25] It was just, OK, if you want to go, go.

[00:29:28] So I did work my way through college.

[00:29:30] I worked at a grocery store while I went to, you know, classes.

[00:29:35] But I made it work.

[00:29:36] And that was my first big move.

[00:29:38] I didn't have anything.

[00:29:40] That was my first experience into the real world.

[00:29:43] Did you stay at LSU?

[00:29:45] I did not.

[00:29:46] I was there for about a year and a half or so.

[00:29:49] And then my younger brother finally graduated to me.

[00:29:52] He actually graduated.

[00:29:54] And my parents at that point said, OK, if you're really going to go to college, why don't you come back to Houston?

[00:30:00] And you and your brother can get an apartment together and help each other through college.

[00:30:05] And so, you know, they got him a car.

[00:30:08] They're like helping him and supporting him through college.

[00:30:10] So it was kind of like, well, why not stay together and help each other out?

[00:30:14] So that was my move back into Houston.

[00:30:17] But again, you know, I felt, OK, well, my parents are not living in Houston.

[00:30:22] I can still, you know, create a life of my own.

[00:30:25] It's OK.

[00:30:25] And so that was my move back was to help my brother and really help myself get, you know, and finish.

[00:30:32] So I did finish off at the University of Houston here.

[00:30:36] So you once again saw that you weren't worth as much because your parents were willing to help your brother.

[00:30:42] Yeah.

[00:30:43] OK.

[00:30:44] Yes.

[00:30:44] So that, you know, it's very common for them to talk about, well, what does my boys need?

[00:30:51] They're going to need college education.

[00:30:53] They're going to need a car.

[00:30:54] They're going to need help.

[00:30:55] I mean, to this day, sometimes I was like, can you give your brother some gas money?

[00:30:59] Wow.

[00:30:59] So it's about like what they need, how to support them.

[00:31:02] They need you to, you know, call them to invite them to dinner.

[00:31:05] And it's always about what I need to do to help them.

[00:31:08] The boys.

[00:31:09] And I love my brothers.

[00:31:10] I got along with them great.

[00:31:12] I don't I don't fault them.

[00:31:14] You know, it's just that like constant like my mom or dad's always like, oh, what about your, you know, when they see me the first thing is like, well, you know, you talk to your brothers lately.

[00:31:23] How's he doing?

[00:31:25] Like, what about your daughter?

[00:31:28] For real.

[00:31:29] So it could be hurtful.

[00:31:30] But I like I said, you know, maybe me and my teens, I was angry and bitter about that.

[00:31:35] But looking back, it's kind of like, OK, I get it.

[00:31:37] They that was just instilled in them.

[00:31:40] And I felt like I needed to break that in between generation.

[00:31:43] Right.

[00:31:44] Like I had that conflict.

[00:31:45] I mean, I get the old, you know, but now this is the new and we both, you know, are equal like women and men were female male doesn't matter.

[00:31:55] Or.

[00:31:56] And so, you know, and I don't I guess in our culture is also like the male or the, you know, the bra of the groom pays for their wedding, whereas the bride, because the bride is actually going from their family to the men or to the groom side of the family.

[00:32:13] So.

[00:32:14] Right.

[00:32:14] OK.

[00:32:15] Interesting.

[00:32:15] Yeah.

[00:32:16] Speaking of.

[00:32:17] Yeah.

[00:32:17] So you're in college and you meet your first husband.

[00:32:22] I did.

[00:32:22] I was.

[00:32:23] So I ended up, you know, just financially.

[00:32:26] I moved in and I started living with someone I was dating.

[00:32:29] His name was Joseph.

[00:32:31] And so my first husband and living with him, you know, as soon as I graduated from college, it was more like, well, you live with him.

[00:32:38] You have to marry him now.

[00:32:39] You know, first of all, living with him was a no no.

[00:32:41] When my parents found out, you know, they're like, oh, my gosh, you're living with someone, you know, out of wedlock and, you know, frowned upon.

[00:32:48] And so the parents got together, you know, shortly, you know, after I graduated from college and said, well, you know, especially my mom.

[00:32:58] And she took me aside and said, you know, your worth as a woman is no longer as value or valuable because now you live with one who wants someone who's lived with another man or has been with another man.

[00:33:10] You know, you're you know, you need to go ahead and just marry him because I was living with him as though I was married already.

[00:33:20] So he's also Vietnamese, am I assuming?

[00:33:23] Yes.

[00:33:23] So both his parents and your parents kind of met up to discuss what you guys should do.

[00:33:28] Am I reading this right?

[00:33:29] Yes.

[00:33:29] But I think I mean, it wasn't arranged marriage by any means, but it was more like, you know, encouraged.

[00:33:37] You were expected to marry him.

[00:33:39] Yeah.

[00:33:39] Yeah.

[00:33:39] It's more like and we were both young and and maybe their influence was like, well, you know, you guys can just make it work.

[00:33:48] You guys have been living together already.

[00:33:50] So, you know, it shouldn't be that difficult now that to just actually get married and start a family.

[00:33:56] And again, it goes back to my mom and dad's mindset of, OK, well, you did your college thing.

[00:34:02] You got that out of your system.

[00:34:03] Now it's time to settle down, have kids and, you know, really focus on the family.

[00:34:08] Yeah.

[00:34:09] Did you want to marry him?

[00:34:11] I cared about him and I loved him, but I was not ready to get married.

[00:34:14] And so when he actually first proposed that idea, I said, no, I don't think we're ready.

[00:34:19] I don't I didn't think I was ready at that time.

[00:34:23] And so when I said no, like his like the parents and even his grandma was like, what do you mean now?

[00:34:30] Like, that's the next step.

[00:34:31] That's the next expectation.

[00:34:34] And because culturally, by the time, you know, well, one, my mom wasn't even expected to go to college.

[00:34:41] Right.

[00:34:42] Or high school for that matter.

[00:34:43] So going to college is already like a big step.

[00:34:46] So you're like, OK, well, your next step, you really should have been already married.

[00:34:49] You're going to be an old maid.

[00:34:50] You know, who's going to want you, you know, now like these are you're no longer worthy.

[00:34:55] Like of someone who has never lived with someone who's, you know, like you they want someone who's going to be submissive and obedient.

[00:35:03] Well, and I'm not that.

[00:35:05] So she actually says these things out loud to you.

[00:35:07] It sounds like it's not just your mom saying this stuff.

[00:35:10] It sounds like, you know, his family is also saying these things.

[00:35:13] And again, I don't want them to sound like they are bad people.

[00:35:17] I think they were just this is just a cultural norm.

[00:35:20] This is their norm.

[00:35:22] And one of the things that really was just like sealed the deal.

[00:35:25] I remember his grandmother was in the hospital and they, you know, we went to go visit her and she just took my hand and she just said, you know, it's OK.

[00:35:32] If you think that you're going to really know someone before you marry, that's not going to happen.

[00:35:38] It's OK to get married and then find out who they are.

[00:35:40] And I'm not saying that Joseph was a bad person.

[00:35:43] He's just we were just so young.

[00:35:45] We were too young.

[00:35:46] We're not ready.

[00:35:47] How long were you married?

[00:35:48] Yeah, we ended up getting married and we were not married very long before I got pregnant.

[00:35:53] And had my first daughter, Lindsay.

[00:35:56] I started changing.

[00:35:57] You know, my life was for my kid now.

[00:36:00] Yes, I couldn't understand that.

[00:36:02] It's a sacrifice.

[00:36:03] And you see the world from a different perspective.

[00:36:06] And so I started, you know, there's no more, you know, going out late, friends over all the time.

[00:36:11] I mean, your life now revolves around this child.

[00:36:14] Yeah.

[00:36:14] But number one, my husband, my first husband did it.

[00:36:18] His lifestyle didn't change.

[00:36:19] He was still, you know, partying and gambling.

[00:36:23] And, you know, I think the gambling part was really what got me.

[00:36:28] And we were only married maybe a year and a half, two years.

[00:36:32] We were trying to save up for a home.

[00:36:34] We had a baby.

[00:36:35] We're trying to move along financially.

[00:36:37] And I was trying to, you know, really progress in my career.

[00:36:42] Like now I'm a career trying to, you know, make a name for myself out in the corporate world.

[00:36:47] And then I have a daughter that I'm trying to take care of.

[00:36:50] There was a constant juggle there.

[00:36:51] And then here my, you know, husband was like at that time he was just living as if he's in college still.

[00:36:58] You know, what really damaged the marriage was when I found out that he spent all the savings.

[00:37:05] Oh.

[00:37:05] And we had a bank statement that came in that had negative dollars in the bank account.

[00:37:09] And, you know, again, growing up, I saw with the financial fights that my parents had.

[00:37:15] And, you know, how it got escalated so fast.

[00:37:18] And I didn't want finances to be a problem in my marriage.

[00:37:24] Like I felt like we shouldn't have these financial issues.

[00:37:28] But yet we are.

[00:37:30] And the worst part of it is that he's lying about it.

[00:37:32] He told me that the bank made the mistake that there's got to be a mistake.

[00:37:36] We don't have negative dollars.

[00:37:38] I'm like, I don't think the bank would make that kind of mistake.

[00:37:41] And I might be naive, but I'm not stupid.

[00:37:45] You know, and so that kind of escalated.

[00:37:47] And then we kind of grew apart after that.

[00:37:52] And then he started seeing someone else.

[00:37:54] And I think it was just, you know, I wasn't angry, upset, surprisingly.

[00:37:58] I was more like, hey, let's just sit down with our parents because I had to ask for the parents' permission if we're not going to do this together anymore.

[00:38:05] You had to request permission from both sets of parents?

[00:38:08] Yeah, I was scared.

[00:38:09] And so I called a meeting, like it was a business meeting.

[00:38:13] And I had all of the facts in front of me with here's the girl's name.

[00:38:18] Here's the issues that we're having.

[00:38:19] And I don't think that I can move forward with this marriage for these reasons.

[00:38:24] And in that meeting, I remember afterwards my mom and dad said, okay, well, your options are you go back to him and you work on the marriage or you come home and live with us.

[00:38:35] Those are my options.

[00:38:37] Oh, my goodness.

[00:38:38] And how old are you?

[00:38:40] I was, at that time, I was probably 27, 28.

[00:38:46] You're still very young.

[00:38:47] Yeah, I was really young still because I had Lindsay when I was 25.

[00:38:52] And so just a few years after that, I was like, I don't, this is not working.

[00:38:57] And we need, I need to, I would like a divorce.

[00:39:01] And I don't think that, and I didn't want him to be unhappy.

[00:39:04] Like if you found someone else that you're happier with, go be with her.

[00:39:08] That was my take on it.

[00:39:09] It's like, I don't think we both need to be miserable in this marriage.

[00:39:11] Right.

[00:39:12] And I think a lot of it was, okay, well, no one in my family has ever really filed for divorce.

[00:39:21] And it's definitely the religious aspect of it was like, you're going to be a sinner.

[00:39:26] You're going to be shunned for life.

[00:39:28] You're, you know, an embarrassment to the family.

[00:39:30] There's all these things that I felt like, okay, well, even my mom stayed right in her marriage that she has not been happy in.

[00:39:40] And I shouldn't, I shouldn't assume that she wasn't happy, but I'm, it's just the things that I'm seeing, like the physical abuse of it.

[00:39:46] Right.

[00:39:46] I'm like, I, should I endure it?

[00:39:49] Like, I felt like I had to stay, but also that pull of, well, he's already with someone else.

[00:39:55] Like, why do I need to be with him?

[00:39:58] And, and so I didn't choose either route.

[00:40:03] I chose not to be with him and I chose not to move home with my parents at that time.

[00:40:06] And it was a difficult time and period in my life because, you know, why not?

[00:40:12] I didn't have it.

[00:40:12] We had negative dollars in the bank account.

[00:40:15] My parents didn't agree with the divorce.

[00:40:18] No one agreed with the divorce really.

[00:40:20] And then he was kind of just nonchalant, right?

[00:40:27] Like it was, yeah, I'll stay with you and I don't have to see this person anymore, but do I have to accept that?

[00:40:33] And that, in my heart was starting to really harden when it came to like, well, why do I have to go with what everyone else says?

[00:40:42] Yeah.

[00:40:44] And I truly was not happy at that time.

[00:40:46] And I was definitely starting to, like I said, there was a lot of built up bitterness and anger.

[00:40:53] And I said, I didn't, I knew I didn't want to live a life of misery for myself or for him.

[00:41:00] You know, but I care about him enough to say, you know what, if you're happier with someone else, go be happy.

[00:41:05] Yeah.

[00:41:07] And you decided to move into an apartment by yourself.

[00:41:10] How did you get there?

[00:41:12] It was hard.

[00:41:13] I didn't have the credit.

[00:41:15] I didn't have the money to move in.

[00:41:17] And I remember because I didn't have the credit, I had to put an extra deposit down in order to secure the rent for the one bedroom.

[00:41:28] And I had a friend, she was so sweet and kind to me.

[00:41:33] And we were, again, we were all just trying to make ends meet.

[00:41:37] I don't, we were only in her 20s.

[00:41:39] And she said, I'm going to, I'm going to lend you the money.

[00:41:43] And that was the first time anyone's ever lent me money to help me.

[00:41:50] And so I, I borrowed her money and, and I told her, I said, I'm going to pay you back as soon as I get, you know, I'm settled in.

[00:42:00] And, you know, the next couple of months I'm going to save up and I'm going to pay you back the deposit that I borrowed.

[00:42:06] And, and I remember during that period of time, it was getting closer to Christmas.

[00:42:10] And so I'm like, I'm not going to spend on anything.

[00:42:12] I'm not going to celebrate Christmas or the holidays.

[00:42:14] I'm just going to try to get a place.

[00:42:16] And I remember my friend donated a couch.

[00:42:19] And so that was the couch we had.

[00:42:20] We had a one bedroom.

[00:42:22] So Lindsay and I slept in the same room.

[00:42:24] We had a bed and that was it.

[00:42:25] I didn't even have a dining room table.

[00:42:28] And so it was just, hey, just to get out though, I needed to be in my own place.

[00:42:33] And so during Christmas, I'm going to, I feel like Christmas has always been a reminder of the gift that my friend Amanda had given me.

[00:42:45] She was the one who lent me the money.

[00:42:48] And she never said when I had to repay her, but I repaid her.

[00:42:52] And so that Christmas I said, oh, I don't need a Christmas tree.

[00:42:55] Lindsay doesn't need any presents under the tree.

[00:42:57] It's okay.

[00:42:58] We're, you know, this is a gift of just being away from all of that and being in peace.

[00:43:02] And that was the real true joy of it.

[00:43:05] But she showed up with a few other friends one weekend and had a live tree with all the decorations in it.

[00:43:15] And that was a moment for me that said, you know, people, it wasn't always about the money.

[00:43:23] It's just showing up.

[00:43:25] I think showing up for me in the way that she did will always remind me of how special Christmas is.

[00:43:33] Because for her, she didn't have to.

[00:43:35] She didn't have to spend that money on me because she too was going through her own things.

[00:43:40] And I felt so blessed to be able to have her and, you know, round up friends to come over to help me decorate

[00:43:47] and really make that Christmas a true Christmas blessing.

[00:43:52] And so I'll never forget the way she made me feel, more importantly,

[00:43:58] but the help that she gave me when I needed it most.

[00:44:03] Wow.

[00:44:04] Wow.

[00:44:05] Angel and human skin.

[00:44:06] Yeah, yeah.

[00:44:07] And to this day, I mean, I try to remind her every Christmas.

[00:44:11] It is her birthday during, you know, right after the holidays.

[00:44:15] But, um, but, um, you know, she would never, I mean, I guess I don't know how to express how,

[00:44:26] um, how much of a blessing she is to me.

[00:44:29] Like, I can never repay her for the things that she's been able to give me when I needed it.

[00:44:35] Mm-hmm.

[00:44:36] So, um, you know, sometimes during Christmas, um, I like to bring up the stories.

[00:44:44] You're just like, oh, don't say that.

[00:44:46] I don't, you know, it's like you don't understand how much of an impact.

[00:44:52] Yeah.

[00:44:53] Because what are my other options if she didn't help me?

[00:44:56] Yeah, she absolutely changed the trajectory of your life.

[00:44:59] Yes.

[00:44:59] Yeah.

[00:45:00] Would you say that was like the defining moment of when you actually broke free from a lot

[00:45:05] of those constraints you were feeling?

[00:45:07] Feeling like you had to stay in your marriage and so much pressure that this angel came in

[00:45:14] and helped give you freedom.

[00:45:16] Yeah, I, I definitely felt like it was another stepping stone towards that.

[00:45:22] You know, I made a slew of other mistakes along the way, but I met someone in New York and we

[00:45:29] started, you know, traveling to and from to see each other.

[00:45:32] And, uh, he brought up, he's like, well, we've been seeing each other a lot.

[00:45:36] You know, we think about having you try living in New York and here's another geographical solution.

[00:45:42] Right.

[00:45:42] You know, cause there was so much shame and embarrassment to the family that I created by

[00:45:47] going through my divorce with husband number one.

[00:45:50] Mm-hmm.

[00:45:50] And so for me, it was like, okay, if I move to New York, no one knows me.

[00:45:55] I can start over.

[00:45:56] Mm-hmm.

[00:45:57] I can start over.

[00:45:59] No judgment.

[00:46:00] No, no one giving me, you know, these looks.

[00:46:03] Um, I don't have to hear my parents and family tell me, you know, how much of a disappointment

[00:46:08] I am and I didn't have to, you know, and I fell away from the Catholic church because

[00:46:12] I felt like I was too much of a shame or, um, embarrassment to the family to actually

[00:46:17] enter.

[00:46:18] Or, and so I kind of just started really putting all of that behind me when I moved

[00:46:23] up to New York.

[00:46:24] Mm-hmm.

[00:46:25] I think you said at one point, your mom said you could not take communion.

[00:46:28] Right.

[00:46:29] So as a, you know, divorcee, you're not, you know, you're a sinner.

[00:46:33] So when you're a sinner, you cannot receive communion in the Catholic church.

[00:46:38] Um, and so if I go to church, I'm not, you know, and the communion is just receiving

[00:46:42] the body and blood of Jesus Christ during service.

[00:46:45] Mm-hmm.

[00:46:45] And, um, and so I wasn't able to receive.

[00:46:50] So that was part of like, well, why am I going to church?

[00:46:52] Mm-hmm.

[00:46:52] Why am I, if I'm no longer welcomed here, then I'm not going to go.

[00:46:56] It was a constant reminder of not being good enough.

[00:46:59] Right.

[00:46:59] It was a constant reminder that I'm not worthy.

[00:47:02] This is where I just stopped going to Catholic church and really move even further away from

[00:47:09] my belief in Jesus and my walk, you know, with him.

[00:47:14] You're living in New York.

[00:47:16] Yep.

[00:47:16] I moved to New York with Lindsay and I found a job because I knew, again, I cannot financially

[00:47:22] depend on a man because I didn't want that.

[00:47:24] I wanted that separation.

[00:47:26] Yeah.

[00:47:26] Of dependency.

[00:47:28] And everything is going fine.

[00:47:29] And, you know, this, this person, let's just call him husband number two, was such a passionate

[00:47:34] and a Prince Charming.

[00:47:36] You know, he was, his family, you know, really accepted me again.

[00:47:40] You know, when I went through the divorce, if I, you know, remember even before I got married,

[00:47:43] if I was already living with someone, I was no longer worthy.

[00:47:45] Right.

[00:47:46] So I felt like I wasn't already good enough.

[00:47:48] And now I have a daughter and I'm divorced.

[00:47:50] I mean, that's even like, you know, like who's going to accept me?

[00:47:54] Right.

[00:47:55] So when I met Kevin, he was really kind to Lindsay and that really warmed my heart.

[00:48:01] He was accepting of the fact that I've been married and I have a kid and then his family

[00:48:07] also accepted that.

[00:48:08] So I felt.

[00:48:09] That must feel really nice.

[00:48:10] It did.

[00:48:11] It felt really nice.

[00:48:12] And so that was the decision to move up there.

[00:48:16] Now, once I moved up there, you know, living together and being out of my element was really

[00:48:22] difficult for me too.

[00:48:24] And so there was some challenges there, you know, financially we were okay, but I, I felt

[00:48:33] like there was conversations that he and I would have, but it escalated really fast to where

[00:48:40] he reminded me a lot of my dad.

[00:48:42] Had a very short fuse.

[00:48:44] And I remember, you know, we were just simply talking about something simple, like in order

[00:48:49] to save money, maybe you get on my phone plan.

[00:48:52] And I, and I think there was some trigger there that caused him to really get heated and upset.

[00:48:57] And all of a sudden he just slapped me.

[00:49:00] And it was, again, the first time since my dad that a man had hit me.

[00:49:05] Oh my goodness.

[00:49:07] And so it was a shock.

[00:49:10] Yeah.

[00:49:10] Um, you said never happened with Joseph.

[00:49:13] No, Joseph never, never hit me or, you know, mistreated me physically or anything like that.

[00:49:19] He just was a party animal.

[00:49:20] He just, we were young.

[00:49:23] So when that happened, it was a shock and, you know, and I felt super alone, but I had

[00:49:31] Lindsay and I did get up to leave.

[00:49:33] And I, I left with her.

[00:49:35] I went out to the car and I sat there and it was New York.

[00:49:37] It was cold and it was snowing.

[00:49:40] And it was, even if the car engine was on yours, you can still feel, you know, how cold

[00:49:46] it was.

[00:49:47] And especially if the car was idle and I'm like, I don't even know where I'm going.

[00:49:50] Like I didn't have any family or friends up in New York.

[00:49:54] And so again, here I am.

[00:49:56] It was a geographical solution.

[00:49:57] I thought getting away, but then I'm here and I'm now in a situation where, where do

[00:50:04] I go?

[00:50:06] I didn't know where to go.

[00:50:08] Um, and so after a little while being in the car and of course, you know, Lindsay's

[00:50:13] in the backseat and she's not understanding what's going on.

[00:50:16] And I felt my heart ache so bad because then I've had, I was left with the decision.

[00:50:22] Like, do I go back inside?

[00:50:24] Do I go back?

[00:50:25] How old was Lindsay here?

[00:50:26] Um, Lindsay has got to, she was probably five or six at that time.

[00:50:30] Oh wow.

[00:50:31] So she's not a baby.

[00:50:32] And you're not married yet.

[00:50:33] No, not at the time we were engaged to be married.

[00:50:38] And so I was left with the decision of like, what do I do?

[00:50:41] Um, so I ended up going back inside because I'm like, I can't let.

[00:50:46] Lindsay freeze to death.

[00:50:47] It's not her fault.

[00:50:49] She didn't do, you know, she didn't create this.

[00:50:53] And, and so I got inside and we talked about it, Kevin and I, and, but I remember that thought

[00:51:00] of like, when my mom was going through her challenges, remember when we went to Wisconsin

[00:51:06] and my dad came to get us, I would always constantly ask like, why did she go back?

[00:51:10] Why did she, why is she going back to someone who's hurting her?

[00:51:15] Right.

[00:51:16] And so in that moment I remembered in that moment, I'm like, because she's thinking about

[00:51:22] us as her kids, where is she going to go?

[00:51:25] What is she going to do?

[00:51:26] And so for me, it was more of, where am I going to go with Lindsay?

[00:51:31] Even if I do decide to leave and geographically move again to solve this problem.

[00:51:38] What do I do with Lindsay in the meantime?

[00:51:40] I, this is my home now.

[00:51:42] Yeah.

[00:51:42] Right.

[00:51:43] I have to go back.

[00:51:44] And so.

[00:51:45] You can understand why your mom sacrificed.

[00:51:47] Yes.

[00:51:48] And so that moment of putting my pride aside, putting my anger aside, putting everything

[00:51:54] that I was feeling aside.

[00:51:55] Your words aside.

[00:51:56] My words aside to go back in and talk it through.

[00:52:00] And so we talked it through and he too was like, I've never done that before.

[00:52:04] I'm never going to do it again.

[00:52:06] And making promises again, reminding me of how my dad has always made these different promises

[00:52:11] again, but I needed to believe that in that moment that it won't happen again.

[00:52:16] Yeah.

[00:52:17] So that was, that was definitely a challenge for me.

[00:52:22] So you're starting to recognize that you're repeating some of the same patterns as your

[00:52:26] mom, your dad.

[00:52:28] Oh yes.

[00:52:29] And it gets worse.

[00:52:31] It does get worse.

[00:52:32] Um, so I did end up getting married to Kevin.

[00:52:36] Um, and you know, I thought things would change, you know, like, I don't know why again, we moved.

[00:52:41] He's like, okay, maybe you being up in New York was the trigger.

[00:52:46] Like maybe that was creating a lot of emotional imbalance and you were out of your element.

[00:52:51] Maybe we moved back to Houston.

[00:52:52] What if you move back to Houston and you're with your friends and your family, you know,

[00:52:56] we won't fight as much, you know, that was the solution.

[00:53:00] So we moved back to Houston and we moved back to Houston.

[00:53:04] We got married and, you know, for a little while, you know, I thought things were humming

[00:53:09] along cause he took anger management class.

[00:53:11] Things were going to get better.

[00:53:13] I mean, other than, you know, him hitting the wall, putting holes in the walls and things

[00:53:17] like that, that was still like better the wall than me is my thought.

[00:53:22] Right.

[00:53:23] However, you know, once I got pregnant with, um, Brandon, my second, I was, I remember we

[00:53:29] were, we got into a fight about, a lot of it, the fights are about, you know, probably

[00:53:35] unimportant things.

[00:53:37] And I was going down the stairway and he was angry and he pushed me and I was pregnant at

[00:53:43] that time.

[00:53:43] Well, I'm probably six months pregnant.

[00:53:45] Oh, six months.

[00:53:48] You're pretty far along.

[00:53:49] Um, and so that was that moment of, again, like I got to protect my, my kid and I called

[00:53:56] the cops and I said, you're never going to do that again.

[00:53:59] You're not going to hurt me or my kids.

[00:54:03] And, but again, you know, we're like, okay, now I'm in my second marriage.

[00:54:07] If I didn't, if I didn't feel worthy, even before I married my first husband, I definitely

[00:54:12] didn't feel worthy now.

[00:54:14] Like now it was not good enough for anyone at that point.

[00:54:17] So again, it was more, I got to make this work.

[00:54:20] I got to sacrifice.

[00:54:21] I have to endure because one, I'm already an embarrassment.

[00:54:25] I can't do this again.

[00:54:26] I can't go through another divorce.

[00:54:28] So I'm like, I'm gonna, I'm going to make it work.

[00:54:30] I'm going to have to figure this out.

[00:54:33] And so after that, you know, episode, I mean, you know, we, I had, um, Brandon and it was

[00:54:42] just little things.

[00:54:43] I mean, I learned to bite my tongue.

[00:54:45] I learned how to just avoid conflict.

[00:54:48] Walk on eggshells.

[00:54:49] Walk on eggshells.

[00:54:50] But I mean, it was just, it could be anything.

[00:54:53] And I look back now and it's like, I really lost my voice and my identity and who I really

[00:55:00] was because, you know, he learned to, as someone who can break me down, he'll say things like

[00:55:06] no one loves you.

[00:55:08] You're a terrible mom.

[00:55:09] Um, you know, it's just things that really, to me, like was made you feel even less valuable.

[00:55:18] Like the little that I had.

[00:55:21] I mean, I look back now, I'm like, wow, you know, I, I allowed someone to get me to the

[00:55:26] point where I didn't even believe in myself.

[00:55:30] And, and so, you know, fast forward where I was with him for a total of about 10 years.

[00:55:36] Um, and it, it, I guess the breaking point is, is when we got into such a big fight where

[00:55:45] he had me pinned down and where he was like choking me.

[00:55:48] And he was, I mean, the, the, the, the way he looked, it was not him anymore.

[00:55:53] Right.

[00:55:54] And where he was like, he threatened to kill me at that point.

[00:55:57] And I think once he said, I'm going to effing kill you, I think he and I both recognized

[00:56:02] that, you know, one, that's, it wasn't right.

[00:56:07] And that this could probably keep escalating to the point where he could hurt me or I can

[00:56:12] retaliate and hurt him.

[00:56:14] And I said, and is that what we really want to have something happen to me where I can't,

[00:56:22] you know, I'm not physically here anymore or not, or unable to take care of the kids.

[00:56:26] And then what's going to happen to him?

[00:56:27] You're going to go to jail.

[00:56:29] What's going to happen when the kids will be parentless?

[00:56:32] Like what will happen?

[00:56:33] And I think in that moment it was, you know, like we need help and we did go to counseling.

[00:56:40] Um, and it, it just, you know, all that to say, I think we, you know, I recognize that

[00:56:48] I couldn't do it anymore because I, I don't know what it, and it was a trigger for him or

[00:56:57] for me.

[00:56:58] And I used to blame myself.

[00:56:58] Like if I would do this differently or if I would not say this, or if I say these things

[00:57:03] differently, you know, there's always something I had to do to figure out how do I change to

[00:57:08] change the outcome.

[00:57:10] And I realized it's not just me.

[00:57:14] No, it wasn't just me.

[00:57:17] And, and so the realization of, I have to fall for divorce again was so devastating for me.

[00:57:24] I imagine.

[00:57:25] And because here is another failure, you know, and, and going back to that, I mean, but when my

[00:57:32] relationships were failing in my career wise, it was actually, I was outperforming, you know,

[00:57:40] maybe I was burying myself in work, you know, like, okay, I can't get things right at home, but

[00:57:46] at least I'm able to get it right at work.

[00:57:49] And no one even at work knew that I was dealing with all of this at home.

[00:57:54] You were driven to not have the financial suffering that you had as a kid.

[00:57:58] Correct.

[00:57:58] And I thought if, if in a relationship, if, you know, we were financially provided for

[00:58:05] and that we're good, that we don't have any problems.

[00:58:07] Like I associate a lot of the fights my parents had with some of the financial hardship that

[00:58:13] they experienced.

[00:58:14] You know, being in America, not speaking the language, not having education and all of

[00:58:20] that.

[00:58:21] Right.

[00:58:21] Right.

[00:58:21] And so I associated that with, okay, these are why there's so many arguments and fights.

[00:58:26] But then I realized, no, I, we didn't have the financial issues in my second marriage.

[00:58:32] So why are we fighting so much?

[00:58:34] So the, the final physical altercation that spurs you into the divorce, then it's going

[00:58:41] to be your major catalyst.

[00:58:42] Yes.

[00:58:45] And I remember I was so far removed from my faith and my walk with Jesus.

[00:58:51] I'm done.

[00:58:51] I don't know what else to do.

[00:58:53] I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

[00:58:54] I don't know how to even move forward from this point.

[00:58:57] Do I end it, my life here and let the kids go with their dad?

[00:59:01] Maybe they're a better parent than I am.

[00:59:02] Like there's all these self doubts.

[00:59:04] I definitely felt like I was not, I was not doing something right.

[00:59:08] And I remember that song by Carrie Underwood, Jesus Take the Wheel.

[00:59:11] I mean, it was just perfect timing.

[00:59:14] When I saw a flyer that said, you know, here's a church that's starting up in my neighborhood

[00:59:19] and no perfect people were allowed.

[00:59:21] The timing of it couldn't have been better because I definitely was not a perfect person.

[00:59:26] I, at this point was like, I, I'm making a mess out of my life.

[00:59:31] I keep making these decisions that I think is good, but it turns out to be so bad for me.

[00:59:37] And I didn't know which route it takes.

[00:59:40] So I ended up going to this church.

[00:59:41] And again, the last church I went in, have been in was a Catholic church.

[00:59:45] And this, this new church was so different.

[00:59:47] It was, you know, you come in, there's like a lot of worship music to start it off.

[00:59:52] And then, you know, they dim the lights and I'm sitting in the back.

[00:59:55] And I felt so comfortable in there because no one could see me.

[00:59:59] I was like, oh, this is great.

[01:00:02] You know, the shame was, you know, dissipated when I was there.

[01:00:05] No one understood or knew me.

[01:00:07] And it was a more of a focus on how do I walk with Jesus again so that I can have a different path?

[01:00:14] Because again, like Jesus, just take the wheel.

[01:00:17] Like I'm giving you.

[01:00:18] So now I'm at the, I've hit rock bottom.

[01:00:21] I felt I don't know what else to do.

[01:00:23] And so I was just hoping, you know, that he will lead me down this path.

[01:00:29] Yeah.

[01:00:30] So I know that your journey to faith is so significant.

[01:00:35] And we cannot wait to be able to dive deep into that in our next episode.

[01:00:39] Stay tuned for that.

[01:00:41] And I promise you it's going to be incredible.

[01:00:42] And I look forward to sharing that.

[01:00:44] Thank you for joining us today.

[01:00:50] If you enjoyed this episode, please share, hit like, subscribe, and follow us on YouTube

[01:00:56] and wherever you get your podcasts.

[01:00:58] Feel free to email us at monomythdiaries at gmail.com with your monomyth and keep the conversations going.

[01:01:06] Until next time, heroes, let's journey together through stories.